There Are Worse Moms Than You | Glenn Boozan

About This Episode

The truth is there are moms way worse than you! And the fastest way to feel like a better parent might be a laugh you did not expect. On this episode of The Brainy Moms Podcast. Dr. Amy and Sandy talk with Glenn Boozan, an Emmy-nominated, WGA award-winning comedy writer and the author of the New York Times bestselling gift book There Are Moms Way Worse Than You, to talk about why modern parenting can feel like a constant test you can never pass, even when you are pouring your whole heart into your kids.

Glenn explains how a simple joke for her sister during the pandemic turned into a wildly popular, science fact-checked, rhyming reminder that perfection is not the goal. We dig into the mom guilt spiral, why shame keeps parents stuck in their heads, and how humor can loosen that grip long enough for you to breathe and reconnect. Glenn shares some of the most unbelievable animal parenting facts in the book, the kind that instantly reset your perspective and make your own messy day feel a lot more survivable.

We  go behind the scenes on comedy writing: what joke punch-up really is, how writers learn to capture someone else’s “voice,” and why a well-timed laugh can feel like a turning point after a hard moment. If you are tired of chasing perfect parenting standards, overwhelmed by nonstop advice, or just craving a kind, funny reality check, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a review so more parents can find the exhale.

About Glenn Boozan

Glenn Boozan is an Emmy-nominated WGA-winning comedy writer who has turned her sharp, compassionate humor toward parenting. She’s the author of the New York Times bestselling gift book, There Are Moms, Way Worse Than You: Irrefutable Proof That You Are Indeed a Fantastic Parent, and its companion, There Are Dads, Way Worse Than You: Unimpeachable Evidence of Your Excellence as a Father. Glenn’s books are rhyming, illustrated love letters to imperfect parents, packed with real animal facts, like giraffe moms kicking their babies until they walk, or koala moms feeding their kids poop, or hamster moms who occasionally eat their newborns, to remind us that however messy our household feels, there are truly moms and dads way worse than us in the animal kingdom. Find Glenn on IG @GlennBoozan and buy her books on Amazon: https://a.co/d/0hJAix3W

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NOTE: This transcript was auto-generated by an AI assistant that thinks it’s smarter than we are. It’s not, but it has more free time than we do, so we gave it a low-stakes job. It probably spelled a few things wrong, but we’re okay with that. We’d rather spend our time interviewing cool guests!

Why Parents Feel Crushing Pressure

Dr. Amy Moore 0:02
Today, we are talking about the crushing pressure so many moms feel to be perfect, even when they’re already pouring out their hearts for their kids. Our guest today is Glenn Boozan, an Emmy-nominated WGA-winning comedy writer who has turned her sharp, compassionate humor toward parenting. She’s the author of the New York Times bestselling gift book, There Are Moms, Way Worse Than You. Irrefutable proof that you are indeed a fantastic parent, and its companion, There Are Dads, Way Worse Than You. Unimpeachable Evidence of Your Excellence as a Father. Glenn’s books are rhyming, illustrated love letters to imperfect parents, packed with real animal facts, like giraffe moms kicking their babies until they walk, or koala moms feeding their kids poop, or hamster moms who occasionally eat their newborns, to remind us that however messy our household feels, there are truly moms and dads way worse than us in the animal kingdom. So we’re going to talk about why she wrote this book in response to mom guilt, how humor can actually help the brain loosen its hold on shame, and what it’s like to craft a book under the pressure to make it perfect, and what message she most wants parents to carry into their everyday lives. We are so excited to have this interview today with Glenn Boozan.

How A Book Discovery Sparked Joy

Dr. Amy Moore 1:31
Thank you. Thanks, guys, for having me. Oh yeah, we’re so excited to talk to you. That’s so great. Me too. Yeah, let me tell you how we found you. Um I had gone, yeah, so I was in Barnes and Noble. I never go to the bookstore. I would just order everything on Amazon. Um, but my book is in copy editing right now. And so I had gone to the bookstore because I wanted to look at the inside back cover to see the headshots of when husbands and wives write a book together, what those looked like. Were they casual? You know, so you actually have to go in and look at them. Are most of them kissing? Well, there were some really awkward ones. Like really, I’m like, really? You chose this?

Glenn Boozan 2:12
I mean you want to ask about that after this, but yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 2:15
Yeah. Like one, like one wife was holding the lapels on her husband’s jacket. And I thought, your editor didn’t suggest maybe something a little you’re right. No one had thought about that. I right. And so I I wanted it to be like I wanted it to sh, it’s a parenting book. And so I wanted it to show that my husband and I love each other, but I didn’t want it to look stupid, like right. Like a wedding photo, like a prom photo. So I spend like three hours in the bookstore and I’m looking at it and I’m taking, you know, uh photographs of the ones that I like to send to my photographer because we were getting ready for our photo shoot. And anyway, um, I come, my mom went with me. She’s 84. I come around the corner and she’s holding your book. And she’s like, Amy, you have to see this book. So I’m standing in the bookstore reading your book and I’m cackling over this book. And so I I bought it and then took a photograph of it, sent it to our PR director, and I said, I gotta, we have to interview this author. I don’t care what you have to do. You find her.

Glenn Boozan 3:22
You saw my name and you went, we have to interview this guy. We need to find out who he is.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:28
Yeah. Maybe, yeah, no, I can’t remember if I thought it was the guy or not. I just remember thinking, like, I didn’t look you up, nothing. I just wanted to talk to you because we’re a parenting podcast. And we just thought, how cool would it be? Um, because your book is really fun. Really fun.

Glenn Boozan 3:48
Thank you. That is so nice to hear and so meaningful. So I really appreciate it. Your mom has great tasty books.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:56
Right? She does.

Sandy Zamalis 3:57
And and she was a teacher, so she probably spotted it immediately and was like, what is this? Right. She’s smart, smart woman.

Dr. Amy Moore 4:08
Yeah. Uh and then when I found out you have one for dads too, I thought, you know what? I’m gonna go buy that for my husband for Father’s Day.

Glenn Boozan 4:17
That’s great. So he can’t listen. So can he hear you now?

Dr. Amy Moore 4:22
No, he’s actually on a fishing trip in Utah. I was gonna say, you’ve just ruined the surprise. I mean, we’re done raising kids. Our kids are all in their 20s. Um, but just because it’s so cute.

Glenn Boozan 4:38
Um to me, that’s kind of the perfect time to give the book as a gift is either in the very beginning when a parent is so stressed that they’ve lost their mind and all they can do is laugh about it, or after all the stress of most of the stress of raising young kids and teens is done and you can laugh about it. Like there’s a sweet spot of right in the beginning and towards the end.

Dr. Amy Moore 5:04
Yeah, totally. You know, even though I regret some things.

Glenn Boozan 5:08
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 5:09
At least I don’t eat my children.

Glenn Boozan 5:11
Could have been worse. Could have been worse.

Dr. Amy Moore 5:16
Yeah. Totally. So I read the book to Sandy. She’s cackling. Like, it’s just so fun.

Glenn Boozan 5:27
Yeah, it’s um, it’s a quick read, too. So like sometimes I’ll do book signings. I’ll be like, do you want to talk about the book? Or like, you know, go into depth. I was like, I could just read it. I was like, takes 10 minutes to get through. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 5:40
Well, we would actually love if you would read a couple of pages, just so that our listeners and watchers can get a feel for it, because that’s what sells it, right? Like you hear some of these really fun, rhyming facts.

Glenn Boozan 5:55
Um there’s an appendix in the back that’ll sort of uh give you a little bit more scientific information, but it is scientifically fact-checked, and these are, yeah. So I brought my first two books. So the first one’s called There Are Moms Way Worse Than You. Obviously, that’s what we’re talking about. And then the second one is There are Dads Way Worse Than You. Um, and I have a third book out, which you guys are brainy moms, so maybe you’ll be into this. It’s not about parenting, but just in case I would mention it, it’s called At least you’re not an English major, and it’s a gift book for graduates.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:29
Yeah, I love that because I make fun of English majors all the time. Like all the time. Now, now I have to say our PR director is an English major and she’s a genius, right? So, but and my brother was an English major, but you know, he went and had to go get an MBA to actually do something with his um, but I can remember I so I was uh in my final semester of college, and I was like taking um like grad school entrance exams the next day. And so I was waiting tables. I was waiting on a table of eight men, and they were all bankers. And so eight bankers, and uh, they asked what I was getting my degree in, and I said um psychology. And um they said, yeah, so you could be a banker like half of us, or the other half of us are English majors, right? So, like, what do you like what do you do with this English degree if you’re not gonna be a writer or a teacher, right? So the joke is always, oh, you could be a banker.

Glenn Boozan 7:27
Exactly. Right.

Dr. Amy Moore 7:29
Do you mention bankers in this book?

Glenn Boozan 7:32
Yes, we talk about um, so it’s sort of like a feel-good. I’m calling it um, like, oh, the places you’ll go for the sort of modern cynic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where like the world is so tough these days that, you know, an any new grad entering into the workforce and just into adulthood is so stressed out um by, you know, and AI’s taking all your all our jobs, you know, the price of gas is crazy, you know, all those things. So um it it’s sort of uh it’s making graduates feel better by comparison. So, like, hey, um look, even if you had an MBA, you know, you look at Xerox, look at uh pets.com, look at Quibi. You can fail no matter what degree you have. And then there’s a sentimental moment at the end for anyone who is going on a sort of scary creative path that’s like, hey, um, you just have to follow your heart and your gut because there’s only one of you, and and you need to bring to the world whatever you um, you know, your special light or whatever, you know, you you bring. So I love that. Uh but uh but all my friends are English majors and all and my age book agent and you know editors, they’re all English majors, so they got a kick out of out of making the book as well.

Dr. Amy Moore 8:44
That’s great. Um okay, well, I we would love it if you would read some of your there are mom’s way worse than you book.

Glenn Boozan 8:51
Yes. Uh a little little diversion there. Okay, so there are moms way worse than you. And

Glenn Reads The Rhyming Reality Check

Glenn Boozan 8:56
I’ll just read like a few. I’ll read the intro and then a few um a few facts. A few facts. I won’t read the whole thing. Okay. Congrats, you had a kid or two. Oh, what a time of joy. You got the crib, the car seat, bib, you bought the perfect toys. You read the books, you did the work, you baby proofed your stuff. But even so, a nagging thought, what if it’s not enough? Like, what if I don’t burp them right? Or what if I’m too strict? Or what if I buy diapers and the diapers make them sick? Or what if they get tetanus or I don’t dress them right? Or what if when I strap them in the baby bjorn’s too tight? Or maybe your head starts to spin. It’s now a full-blown panic. They lose an eye, or even worse, their food is not organic. Or what if I’m not watching and they stumble off a cliff? Or I or or if I pick the wrong preschool? What if, what if, what if, whoa, okay, calm down now. Take a deep breath. Big exhale. It’s absolutely normal to feel like you’re doomed to fail. And though you’ll make some big mistakes, remember this is true. When put into perspective, there are moms way worse than you. You won’t be worse than hamster moms, no matter how you try. Sometimes they eat their newborn pups. We still don’t yet know why. A mom giraffe is pretty nice until the fetus drops. She’ll birth a newborn baby calf, then kick him till he walks. If someone calls you selfish mom and makes you feel like crud, tell them sometimes Dracula ants will suck their baby’s blood. And then it keeps going and all the moms.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Glenn Boozan 10:47
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:48
I love that. Thank you so much for sharing.

Glenn Boozan 10:51
I mean, it’s course. Thanks for listening. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:53
Well, it puts everything in perspective for sure. Thank you. Yeah.

The Pandemic Origin Story And Mom Spiral

Dr. Amy Moore 10:58
Why why did you write this book?

Glenn Boozan 11:00
So I wrote this book. Um, this was around the time of the pandemic. My sister had one kid, was pregnant with her second, and um was hanging out at her house, and she started doing that mom panic spiral where she was like, is my kid being socialized enough? Am I feeding her the right things? You know, is her, you know, what percentile is she in? And um I was sort of stunned that she was this hard on herself because um her daughter’s favorite food is radishes and her favorite activity is reading. So I was like, Yeah, Alex, you’re doing okay. I was like, because in my in my eyes, my sister was is like the best mom in the whole world. So I was stunned. I was like, Michael Phelps doesn’t think he’s a bad swimmer. Like, what? But I realized, you know, it’s this like self-judgment that you’re always because it’s it’s for many people the most important job they’ll ever have in the world, and they care so much about, you know, they love their kids more than anything. And so they just want to do a good job. Um, and so to sort of like cut the tension, I was like, Alex, look, like hamster moms eat their kids. So like you’re doing okay. And she started to laugh. And I thought, oh, that’s kind of nice. Maybe I’ll write that for her as a Mother’s Day card. So I did some research and I looked up more animals, like a koala mom and you know, like a quoka mom and those things, and I found like bad moms in the animal kingdom, and I put them together and I wrote like a rhyming Mother’s Day card for her. And I was looking around, and um, my manager um found out that I was looking for just I just wanted somebody to illustrate the Mother’s Day card, and he was like, Oh, did you write something? Like, can I take a look? And his wife read it and she was like, Oh, Mother Free. And she was like, Oh my god, I feel these things every day. So um it was and then that just became a book that sort of made its, I mean, you know how long books take to make, you know, at least. So I went from having a gift for my sister for Mother’s Day to then like having to wait two years to show her the book as a surprise. So like very belated Mother’s Day gift. But I was like, Alex, I did have this as a gift for you two years ago, but but I thought it would be cooler if I just showed you the book that I dedicated to you instead. Did she love it? She had to love it. She cried, it was really sweet. And she was like, Oh my god. Yeah. So it was um, yeah, she’s the best. But yeah, that’s the that’s the story.

Dr. Amy Moore 13:26
Well, obviously it it resonated. I mean, it’s a New York Times bestseller. It resonated with mom’s everywhere. Yeah. And so even though it’s

Humor As A Cure For Shame

Dr. Amy Moore 13:38
funny, like I know that you’re you know a comedy writer and I want to hear more about that. Sure. There’s a deeper message there. It’s not just you’re not just being funny, right? Like there’s there’s a deeper message. Talk a little bit about that and what you were what you were hoping moms would get out of that.

Glenn Boozan 13:57
Yeah. So I’m not a parent, um, but I a lot of my friends have kids and my siblings have kids. And so I sort of look at parenting like a fan in the stands at the Olympics, where I’m watching people at the top of their human game do the hardest thing in the world day in and day out. And um, and I feel like I feel like my goal, like as I get older, you sort of find your voice as a writer and as a person. And and and one of my goals is to sort of like just ease people’s self-judgment through humor. I think is like sort of I found my niche, I think, because I feel really strongly about that. And I just because I I wish for that kindness, that self-kindness for the people that I love, for my sister, for my friends. Um, because as an outsider, I know that there’s a lot of judgment in this world for moms, especially in this modern day and age where I think everything’s just gone absolutely insane in terms of like how people judge everyone, you know, walking down the street, like, oh, your stroller isn’t at the right height, like you’re the worst, you’re a devil parent. And just like, you know, you see these people taking photos of moms in public having a bad day and put posting them on the internet. And I was like, I just, I just want to contribute positively. Like if I have a legacy to give, I want to contribute positively to making people feel better about themselves and the best. Because you’re only doing it every single moment in time, you’re only doing the best that you are possibly able to do. You can’t redo it. You can only do it once. That’s how time works. And so, like, if I am able to make people, at least for a moment, especially moms, feel better about what they’re how they’re raising their children, then I think they’ll be better parents at the end of the day because they’ll just be better peop, they’ll just feel better. Um, so long-winded answer of saying like that’s my goal is to provide a collective exhale for people through comedy.

Dr. Amy Moore 15:56
I love that, you know, because shame turns us inward. Yes. And so to be released from that, then we can be fully present. Like even in our raw, you know, brokenness, we can still be fully present as parents, as spouses, as friends.

Glenn Boozan 16:14
Excellent point. Excellent point. Shame is such a big element of it because it’s all shame-based. And I’m like, nothing ever gets done with shame. And if it does get done, it’s temporary and it’s not meaningful to the it’s it’s not a meaningful win.

Sandy Zamalis 16:27
It’s such a dichotomy because I feel like um, in general in society, while we’re more judgmental, we’re also more free probably than we’ve ever been in terms of information and you know, tools we have at our disposal. But at the same time, it’s it’s like constraining. Like I think this goal of perfect parenting comes from the fact that we just have too much information, right? You know, at our fingertips. We can see other people doing it perfectly, but you know, not really. So it’s a it’s a weird standard to hold ourselves to that that we’ll be able to parent in in a way that our child will grow and be this perfect. I mean, that’s a lot of pressure. That’s a lot of pressure, not only for the parent, but for your kids too.

Glenn Boozan 17:14
Like, yeah. Along those lines, my husband and I have a joke. We’re we’re two sort of high anxiety people. We like tend towards anxiety. And so um, sometimes when we’re like having a really bad day, like ang anxious wise, um, we’ll just turn to each other and be like, I wish I was just like dumber. I just wish for like a minute I could be dumb. Dumb meaning don’t I don’t think about anything ever.

Dr. Amy Moore 17:41
Right. Blissfully ignorant, right? Like the more information that you’re overwhelmed with, right, the more you start spinning.

Glenn Boozan 17:49
Yes, you can see every possibility, like you were saying. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 17:54
Yeah. So for sure.

Too Much Parenting Information And Anxiety

Dr. Amy Moore 17:56
Um so talk to us a little bit about what you what your day job is, because I’m fascinated by it.

Glenn Boozan 18:04
Thank you. Day job is such a kind way of saying um unemployed. Every comedian, every comedy writer will be like, oh yeah. Um yeah, my um my day-to-day is so weird because I’m like self-employed and self-directed, but also like sometimes I have to go into an office, but sometimes I don’t. But for the most of most of my day, I’m just spent I’m spending it like home. I wake up and I drink my tea and I shower and all that stuff. And then I either go to a coffee shop or I sit down in my house and just try to write whatever I want to write, which is crazy making. Sometimes I’ll have an assignment, which is great. Like I’m working on a new book right now, which is fantastic. I’m like, oh, good. I have like an assignment because I love an assignment.

Dr. Amy Moore 18:51
Is it your book or are you ghostwriting it?

Glenn Boozan 18:53
No, so I’m working on a new book. It’s called, it’s gonna be called There are Sisters Way Worse Than You. So that’s gonna come out in a few years. Sisters and brothers, yeah. Um, which the tone will be a little bit jokier and a little bit probably more edgy than the first because the mom and dad ones are like, you’re doing a great job. And the sister one is like, you stole my shirt. I know you stole my shirt, but at least you’re not Cinderella’s evil stepsisters, which is fine. So it’s a little sassier of like a of a town, yeah. Yeah. Um, but so now I’m like working on that, which is really nice. So that’s kind of my day job is all over the place, but like um, like sometimes I’ll, you know, because I do screenwriting, so TV and movies and stuff, um, as well as books. And so um, like today I’m going into a writer’s room for a couple hours for like um a show on dropout TV, and which is like an internet comedy place. And then like some days I’ll go in to do joke punch-up on a movie, and so that’ll just be like a day-long thing. Um What does that mean? Junk put joke punch up. What does that mean? Oh, so um, so when you’re writing a comedy movie or a movie with jokes, it doesn’t even have to be a straight comedy, they’ll finish the film, the script for the film. So before they start shooting, um, sometimes after they’re shooting, and they’ll put it in in post. But they if they want the movie to be as funny as possible, they’ll have a basically a finished script that they’ll then invite a bunch of writers in to sit down who can who do jokes, who write jokes. And they’ll have read the script. So I will have read the script and I will come up with like just pitches for jokes that characters can say throughout the film, or like little joke moments or something like that. So we’ll be like, hey, it’s basically like um like a funny consultant, like a joke consultant to turn the dial up on the jokes. Um so, and those are really fun because you’re just laughing all day. You’re just like, oh, this is great. Yep, that’s a great like, you know. So um, so that’s what it’s like that’s fascinating.

Dr. Amy Moore 20:43
That’s fascinating to me because so I I like to be, I do a lot of workshops in public speaking. And so I want that time to be funny. Um, but it’s more about my self-deprecating humor that makes people laugh, right? I’m neurodivergent and I’m willing to share, right? How this impacts my life. And so those things, like I’ll tell parenting stories. So it’s all about personal experience, right? There’s stories that I’m willing to be vulnerable enough to share that makes that funny. How do you get inside the mind of a character that you don’t even know yet and make them be funny? How do you do that?

Glenn Boozan 21:29
So there are different kinds of like comedy. So there’s the sort of self-deprecating comedy, there’s um like observational comedy, there’s, you know, all sorts of ways that you can go about like making somebody laugh. Um, usually it takes time and practice of just doing it. So, like when I first started out, I was not good at it. And like, you know, in my 20s when I was starting to, you know, be a comedy writer, you know, you you have to pitch for many years and along like a lot at different iterations of your Career and it won’t all be good, um, to again find your voice

Inside A Comedy Writer’s Working Life

Glenn Boozan 22:05
and what you think is funny. But what I tend to do when I’m writing for a character is you get a pretty good sense of it because you’ve read the movie so far. Um and so what I guess I oh gosh, it’s a really good question. What I get because it’s so like second nature now to me at this point where I’m like, oh, yeah, what about this? What about this? What about this?

Dr. Amy Moore 22:24
Now you have to reverse engineer the process.

Glenn Boozan 22:26
It’s so funny to think of it. That’s a really good question.

Dr. Amy Moore 22:29
And as I was thinking about that, I was thinking, like, how would I? So Sandy and I, you know, put it put together an outline or bullet points of things that we want to make sure we cover in our in our show. Um but I was thinking, what if I wanted to write something for Sandy to say that I thought was funny? That’s impossible to me, right? Like I can’t write for her. So it’s fascinating to me how intelligent you have to be because humor is a sign of intelligence. So how intelligent you have to be in order to make it seem like it came out of that person’s experience and brain, and it sounds natural. And anyway, I’m just fascinated as a cognitive psychologist how you make that happen. So I’m impressed. That’s really cool.

Glenn Boozan 23:18
Thank you. It’s really practice of just getting into someone’s brain. And also, I spent the early part of my career writing um for other people. So, like writing for other comedians, um, like on late night TV shows and stuff like that. So I got a lot of experience having to like getting notes back that were like, hey, this doesn’t really feel like this is in Adam’s voice, or this doesn’t really feel like it’s in Sarah’s voice, or whoever I’m writing for, and having to change that. And so I would go and like watch these people’s previous stand-up or previous specials or previous YouTube videos and be like, okay, how do I start to sound with this person, you know, if something really like if you’re watching, like what’s the if you’re watching Friends, let’s say the show Friends, uh, if something good happens to um Rachel, she’s gonna say she’s not gonna be sarcastic about it. She’s not gonna go, oh, well, fantastic, I guess. That’s a Chandler thing. Chandler’s gonna be the sarcastic one. So you you sort of have to be like, oh, if if if uh if this character is met with a certain force and and and and it will react to that certain force, positive, negative, whatever, how would their brain interpolate that? So if Chandler gets a raise, he’ll come back and everyone will go, yeah, you got a raise. He’ll go, uh yeah, great, more time at this job I hate, you know, or whatever. I mean, that’s not funny, but it’s it’s probably would be his reaction. Whereas Rachel, if she got a job, would be like shopping, you know, or whatever. So you have to do the math, which which after you do it for a long time happens pretty quickly. But it’s this sort of like, and when you’re reading a script, you can kind of feel it. Like if also if I’m doing a movie with characters that are sort of widely known, then you sort of already know that character. You’re like, oh yeah, like if I’m writing for Homer Simpson, which I’ve never written for The Simpsons, but if I’m writing for Homer Simpson, you understand that he’s not gonna say what Marge would say. And so you have to sort of be able to craft the difference between those two.

Sandy Zamalis 25:17
Um, so now it happens pretty quickly in my head, but um but yeah, I’ve never thought about like, oh yeah, I guess that is like a neural, it’s like a neural pathway that’s happening that I don’t even I feel like you’d have to be a good mimic in real life a little bit, like be able to like figure out like what vocabulary would they use? What’s their cadence like? Um would they say it, you know, with an uptick in their voice or a downtick, right? Yeah you kind of have to have that in your head, the little bit of a a speaker.

Glenn Boozan 25:48
It really helps. I will also say that a lot of times what happens is creators, um, like big name creators. So like um like uh Seth McFarlane, who created um Family Guy and the whole like Family Guy family, he has now worked for so long and has met so many people and friends that he feels matches his voice more naturally than others. So you will, along your career, like I have all these friends where, you know, when I want joke punch up on something or when I want notes on things or when I want somebody to make my stuff better, I’m like, oh, you naturally already sort of feel like the kind of writer who matches my voice. And I like that, that you’re not just hiring somebody, you’re usually not hiring somebody so different from you, tone-wise, because that doesn’t really blend. And you can kind of get that from their writing samples or from work they’ve previously done. So, like, I’m probably never gonna write for

Writing Jokes In Someone Else’s Voice

Glenn Boozan 26:41
um like a John Oliver. That’s a really smart show, which would love to, but like that’s that’s a really smart political show. And that’s not really my bag. Like, I’m a little sillier, I’m a little dumber, I’m a little in a I say that in a good way. I love dumb stuff, but like, um, but yeah. Are you a comedian? Do you consider yourself a comedian? That’s so funny. I would say I’m a comedy writer because I don’t do stand-up, um, I don’t really perform. I used to do improv um back in New York when I was like a young, young kid coming up in the comedy scene. Um and I would perform sketch stuff on stage, but I always just really preferred writing. So I I don’t comedian feels like almost correct, but not totally correct. So I usually say comedy writer.

Dr. Amy Moore 27:31
Are you funny in real life?

Glenn Boozan 27:35
Depends on the day. I’d like to think I’m pleasant at parties. And then I can sort of riff riff with the best, you know, when Are you the center of attention at parties? I don’t like to be the center of attention. I will I like to share attention. So like if I have a particularly good story that I know, like, oh, this is really good. This happened to me recently, and I think this will really crush. I um I do I will brag a little bit. My dad is really good at like telling a joke or telling a story of something fun that happens. He knows like where to put the punchline and where to put the reveal. So I think I got that from him. So I think I’m pretty good at like, like, well, so we got pulled over by a copy of the day. You’ll never guess what happened. I think I’ll I I’m sort of good at those anecdotes. But if I don’t have anything good, I’m not gonna take attention just for attention’s sake. I don’t want the I’m I’m more of a writer than a performer. I’m not gonna like, you know, yeah. And I like watching other people be funny.

Dr. Amy Moore 28:28
Is there a format? Like, is there a okay, I have to make sure that I, you know, start with this and then I have to build up and then I have to throw the punchline in, or is it natural?

Glenn Boozan 28:38
Um, you want it to feel so when you’re like telling a story at a party, is what you mean? Yeah. So you want it to be as natural sounding as possible. It you want it to sound like you are you were there and you have a confidence of this story, but you don’t want it to sound too rehearsed because people will be like, oh, what is this? They’ll it’ll they’ll be cringe and sort of weird. So you want it to be like the third time you’ve told the story is like kind of a sweet spot because you’ve had two times to practice, but you’re not too sick of, you’re not too like, you know. Um and I the hint is you got to find out what is the line, what is the the fact of the story or the interesting twist that is gonna make everyone go, oh, or like, no, you know, and you want to save that, and you also want to provide enough context so that they know how to react to that. So if the reveal is the dog was actually a cat, then you have to explain like early on, like, okay, so there’s this dog, right? We know it’s a dog, everybody is calling it a dog, you know. And then we take it to the vet and we find out the vet comes in and she goes, So how’s your cat doing? I go, excuse me? My what? You have to like sort of make sure that everybody knows the context of so they understand the reveal at the end. Sure. Yeah.

Sandy Zamalis 29:55
Did you always know you wanted to be a writer?

Glenn Boozan 29:58
Um, I always was writing as a kid. I didn’t really. This is sort of crazy because I grew up in Los Angeles, but I my family wasn’t like super like TV uh movie people. Like they weren’t like in the industry in that way. So I didn’t know that like you really could be a writer as a job. I was like, oh yeah, you could write a book, but I I I I sort of just didn’t know. Nobody goes like, nobody had a career day as like, hey, here’s a TV writer to talk about their job. Um we had like doctors and firemen and stuff. So I was like, oh, or fire firefighters. Um so it only was when I got to high school and college where I I thought, oh wait, I could I I’m now sort of meeting people who know people who do this. And oh wait, you could do that as a job. That’s crazy. So what was your first job? Writing job. First writing job was it was a short little gig and it was a YouTube, a branded YouTube series for Captain Crunch, the serial. And it was like a YouTube series where they were trying to make Captain Crunch into like, I guess maybe they were trying to eventually make it a TV show, but really it was just little episodes of the adventures of Captain Crunch or something like that. And it was about him and his ship and the serial. And I don’t know, maybe he was trying to save the serial, but I don’t remember. But it was, I got the I my friend like put me up for the job and I got it, and I was like, I called my mom, I was like, Mom, I’m a writer. It was like a week-long gig to providing like branded content for YouTube, but I was like so excited, right?

Sandy Zamalis 31:39
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The Laughter Wall And Emotional Reset

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Dr. Amy Moore 33:05
Oh I don’t know, probably 25 years ago. And I remember interviewing for that job and I had to send in some writing samples and I had written a short story and some other things. And um the editor said, Um, I’m hiring you because you know how to write a hook. And I thought, I have arrived.

Glenn Boozan 33:25
Yes, right. Oh, great compliment. That’s all you want to hear as a writer.

Dr. Amy Moore 33:29
Exactly. And it was like advertorials, right? For businesses around town. And so I made it, I made it as immersive and exciting as you could possibly make an advertori. So for every business that I wrote about, I wanted to experience whatever it was. Right. So there was like this Chinese foot massage place. And I’m like, okay, I need to come in. I need you to give me a foot massage so that I can write about it well. Right. Like and I have to write it. And it’s so it’s oh, it’s free.

Glenn Boozan 34:00
Actually, I have to use my business, my business card.

Dr. Amy Moore 34:04
Yeah. So anyway, but I remember that moment, right? Where I was like, I’m a writer too.

Glenn Boozan 34:09
So it’s like your first job. I always say your first job is your best job because you’re like young and you don’t know anything different. You’re like, yes, this is crazy.

Dr. Amy Moore 34:17
I can’t believe it.

Glenn Boozan 34:18
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 34:18
Yeah. Actually, my first job was the um the I love Lucy chocolate factory job. Wait, no, really? Yeah. So I so I grew up on Hilton Head, which is a resort island, and um I got a job at this candy store. I was 14, um, wrapping the chocolate mints that went on the hotel pillows. And so they came off of the assembly line. You wrap them in the foil and you place them on the box. Come off the assembly line, wrap them in the foil, place them in the box. And so it was identical to the um I love Lucy episode where And she just stuck them in your mouth and her head and her apron. Like it’s coming so fast, and you can’t, yeah. That was my first job.

Glenn Boozan 35:04
Wow. I used to work in a chocolate shop too. Yeah? What did you do? Well, that was my first rating job. My first job job, well, babysitting, but um, yeah, I just sold chocolate at a chocolate shop in the town I grew up in. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 35:16
Did you have coconut clusters? Maybe because I must have eaten 12 a day.

Glenn Boozan 35:21
Oh, yeah. I mean, I gained so much weight, it was crazy. Uh, because we could just if if there was like returns or whatever, they’d be like, you just eat it, we don’t care. We had hot chocolate. We had like European hot chocolate, which was the really thick. That was dangerous. Yeah. We had uh orange peels were the big thing, and then I think our our truffles or something was was really sold a lot. Yeah, me and my brother, it’s like teenagers. We’d crazy stuff. Right? A kid in a candy store, literally.

Dr. Amy Moore 35:53
I love those stories. And I love telling those stories too, because it’s so unexpected.

Glenn Boozan 35:58
Yeah. Yeah. And also it’s so fun to just like, I mean, everybody wants to work in a chocolate shop at some point in their life in a candy store.

Dr. Amy Moore 36:05
Sandy, did you work in a chocolate shop or candy store?

Sandy Zamalis 36:07
No, but I did uh have to make cotton candy at Busch Gardens all summer long.

Dr. Amy Moore 36:13
Same thing. Same thing. So cotton candy, oh my gosh, it gets in your eyelashes, doesn’t it? It sticks in your eyebrows and your eyelashes as your main. Cotton candy eyelashes. Oh, it is awful. Because so, yeah. Anyway, yeah. Oh my god. The machine, it’s everywhere. And like you need goggles for this. Yeah, right. You know, protective headgear. That’s so funny. Okay, so um, I’m gonna get back serious again. All right, sure. Talk a little bit. You talk about this laughter wall, right? Where things are seemingly overwhelming, right? But you have to break that tension in a way. Talk a little bit about that.

Glenn Boozan 37:01
Yeah, I’ve always been really fascinated with because my family is a really like, we just are jokes, jokes, jokes, you know. Um, but there are these times in your life where you’ll, and I think everybody’s experienced this, where things are so devastating or so sad or so permanent, and you’ve just been so sad for so long. And it’s usually the moment like after you’re done, after like a big cry or after a big like conversation or whatever, and you’re just sort of sitting there and your face is usually usually like puffy from crying, and you’re sort of like sitting on the couch after a long silence, and then like one of you just accidentally farts and then and everything’s and then you just like absolutely peals of laughter that would maybe not have been as funny. Other like you just need one little thing, because you can only be so sad for so long until I think your uh brain is like, we have to be done with this for at least for right now. We need a break. Like and you and you sort of realize the um just how uh how silly it is. Like you just you just can’t be sad for that long. And that this wall eventually gets sort of you you you pass this through this threshold where you have to laugh. And if you don’t, I truly think you might explode. And um to me, that’s the beginning of like a healing is when you can first laugh after a really devastating event for the first time. And that and it it’s also a reminder, which I think is really important, that it will not always be this way. That little moment of laughter in the depths of despair is a little, is your, I think your soul coming up to go, hey, remember, one day it will not be like this. And then it can sort of go away, but it you just need those little reminders, like you will be you again, they will be them again, the world will, the grass will regrow through these, through this concrete, it’ll be okay.

Dr. Amy Moore 38:57
Yeah, I love that. You know, I I talk about the dysregulation cycle and you know how we something triggers us, and so our emotions escalate until we hit meltdown, right? And then after the meltdown, we come back down uh in this recovery phase and we’re super vulnerable in this recovery phase, right? So it takes very little to trigger us again, right, as we’re recovering from the meltdown.

Speaker 2 39:28
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 39:28
And it can trigger either dysregulation, or what I’m hearing you say is it’s the prime opportunity for a positive breakthrough. Um, that because we’re so tender, um, that we’re more open to those funny moments. Right. And they can be super healing.

Glenn Boozan 39:53
And I don’t know if neurologically, I’d love to hear your opinion on that of like if that’s a thing that like how does humor play into I I guess I’m just so fascinated at the because I do it for a living, but I don’t really know the science behind like what makes people laugh or why people laugh, or you know, like that’s so interesting to me is why during those times do we sometimes go like, yeah, I just gotta laugh, you know?

Dr. Amy Moore 40:16
Yeah. I mean, it’s we’re open to any emotion in those moments. Right. And so I think that when we experience something that brings us joy, then it moves us in a positive direction. Whereas if something negative happens in that moment, then it’s gonna just throw us right back into fight or flight. Yeah. And so it’s just that tenderness of being emotionally flexible in the moment to whatever happens next. So it’s either gonna trigger another meltdown or an escalation or it’s gonna throw us into a joy-filled moment. And the cool part about laughter is it helps our immune system. Oh wow. It actually triggers the release of oxytocin and that bonding hormone. So we’re laughing with other people, right? And so it really, so it nurtures connection. Um, I didn’t know that. Yeah. Yeah.

Sandy Zamalis 41:11
Wow, fascinating. Yeah. The whole time you guys are talking, all I’m thinking of is that scene in Steel Magnolias where they’re at the funeral and um the friend pulls and says, hit her Melyn, because everyone’s in tears and crying, and then that just breaks everybody into total laughter, except for poor Melyn, who was the butt of the joke. But um yeah, like the timing of that though, I think is so key, like Amy was saying. Like you, you know, when you’re in those moments, sometimes it’s an organic thing, like what you described, Glenn. Or sometimes um, if you’re lucky um and you’ve got that friend who can reel you in in the right time, can be, you know, be present with you and sit with you, but also then, hey, it’s time to laugh. We need we need that that secret sauce so that we can come out of this hole that we’re in.

Dr. Amy Moore 42:06
Yeah. And the brain actually doesn’t know the difference between a real smile and a fake smile. And so if we can force ourselves to smile in those moments, then it actually triggers real joy.

Glenn Boozan 42:20
Whoa. Wow. My brain is too easily tricked. Right. And so I’m always like, how do you smile?

Dr. Amy Moore 42:30
I’m great, I’m great, I’m great, right?

Glenn Boozan 42:34
No, that’s the joker. He doesn’t mean it. Smile. No, it’s not really funny. No, he’s a bad guy. Right. Yeah. I wonder if there’s an element of, because for for me, and I I think for a lot of people, comedy is all about subversion of expectation. And so I wonder like if you’re also in a point of despair, or like if you’re at a funeral, you’re not really expecting to laugh. Like the it’s the stage is not set. Nobody’s saying, coming up next to the stage for their tight five, uh, stand up set is that, you know. So you’re expecting to be sad, you’re expecting to cry. And so I wonder if also like it’s just you’re so primed, like it feels so good because it’s such a surprise in in whatever like sort of current stasis you’re in, like current um emotional stage stage you’re in. Yeah. Yeah.

Illustration Process And Hidden Easter Eggs

Dr. Amy Moore 43:26
I love that. Hey, do you do your own illustrations or do you have an illustrator?

Glenn Boozan 43:31
No, I have the best illustrators in the world. So the first two books were done by Priscilla Whitdy. She’s incredible, muralist by trade. But I made her do books for me, and now she does a bunch of books. Um but yeah, she’s incredible. She makes things ten times funnier than they than they are. Um and then for my English major book, it’s my friend Dan Spencer from We Knew Each other, known each other since college, and he’s also just absolutely incredible. Um yeah, so the two books. Best illos in the world.

Dr. Amy Moore 44:02
And so how does that process work? Do you do you actually just hand your manuscript over and let them have creative liberty, or do they need to know what you are envisioning?

Glenn Boozan 44:15
Yeah. So I write the we finalize the draft. My editor and I will finalize the draft of the words. And then I will on my own, and I’ll probably already have had some ideas already about what I want each page to look like. But my editor and I will go through and agree on and discuss what we want each page to look like. And also some stanzas are on the same page. So we have to blend, we have to do one illustration for two stanzas and/or couplets, sorry, couplets. So we’ll sort of figure out the architecture of what we want, what illustrations we want. And then I’ll come up with pitches for, hey, for this stanza or for this couplet, you know, about like Darth Vader, I want it to look like this or whatever. And then we’ll, but sometimes I don’t have an idea for a couplet. Um and I’ll be like, I hope Priscilla has an idea because I don’t know. And she will. She always has like a great idea. So, and then she’ll have, um, she or Dan will have um better ideas on that, or the book, oh, what if we did this? What if we did this? It might be better if we did this, or they’ll include something as a little Easter egg in the background, or um, like, for example, in the mom’s way worse book. This really made me laugh when she did this. Let me find it. Okay, so this one is an eagle mom believes in the survival of the strong. She’ll let her little eaglets fight until the death. How wrong. And this really made me laugh, is I was like, oh, could it? It would be really fun to have um like a boxing match between her two eagle babies and Priscilla on her own, just like added the mom with money in her hand, like she’s betting on the fight. Oh, I missed that. Yeah, okay. That’s cool. Really good little easy. And it just cracked me up. I was like laughing so hard when she showed me. And I was like, see, this is why you gotta get Priscilla. So that’s amazing.

Dr. Amy Moore 46:08
Yeah. Well, what do you want? Um, what do you want people to take away from your mission?

The Message Parents Need Most

Glenn Boozan 46:18
Uh, I guess from my books and from my mission, I would love for all the moms and dads and parents out there to just every once in a while, when things get really stressful, like sort of take a deep breath and just like remind themselves that they’re doing a really good job, especially in spite of everything that’s happening and all the resources or lack of resources available to parents these days. Because we have access to information, but that doesn’t mean we have access to support and apps and structural, you know, and and a village and a community and you know, finance, you know, not everybody’s working with the same deck. So, or not everybody’s playing with the same deck. So um yeah, just take a deep breath and remind yourself that you’re doing okay.

Dr. Amy Moore 47:07
I love that. Um, how can our listeners um find you and find more from your

Where To Find Glenn And Closing

Dr. Amy Moore 47:13
work?

Glenn Boozan 47:13
Yeah, so uh I’m not huge on social media, I don’t really do it, but my Instagram is at Glen Buzan. Uh just just my name at Instagram. And so that’s where all my book updates will happen. So if you want to follow, follow there, that’s where that’s my my bookstagram, basically. Um yeah, that’s kind of otherwise you can find my books. There are mom’s way worse than you, there are dad’s way worse than you, and now at least you’re not an English major. They’re available at um all major bookstores and Amazon and all those, you know, anywhere online. So awesome.

Dr. Amy Moore 47:46
This was such a fun conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us. And um it was really fun uh to meet the the brains behind uh such a fun series of books.

Glenn Boozan 48:00
Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thanks.

Dr. Amy Moore 48:04
All right, we gotta wrap up this show. Yay. Uh Glenn Buzanne, thank you so much for blessing our listeners with this really fun conversation. Um, listeners, we will put a link to uh Glenn’s Instagram and links to buy her books in the show notes. That is all the smart stuff that we have for you today. We love it that you decide to spend this hour with us every week. You can find more from us at the Brainy Moms and at theBrainymoms.com. You can find Sandy on TikTok at the Brain Trainer Lady. And uh we hope you feel a little bit smarter after spending this time with us. We’ll catch you next time.