The Dumb Dads Finally Meet The Brainy Moms

About this Extra Special, Kind of Funny, 200th Episode

For our 200th episode, we had to celebrate in a BIG way. In this kind of funny, completely fun, and highly engaging conversation, The Brainy Moms interview The Dumb Dads! Dr. Amy and Sandy bring on comedians Evan Berger and Kevin Laferriere to talk about what modern fatherhood actually looks like when the cameras are off and the kids are melting down. 

We laugh about the daily stuff that tests your patience and your parenting skills: motion-activated toys that will not stop talking, slime that somehow becomes part of your carpet forever, and the special frustration of kids’ gadgets that need a mystery battery plus a tiny screwdriver. The stories are funny because they’re painfully real and they lead to something useful: how to notice when you’re overloaded, own the mistake, and do the repair with your child.

We also talk about social media algorithms, parenting comparison, and how to protect your mindset while still finding community. We share the “detective” framework we use with families, including tired, hungry, sick, or stressed checks, plus how unmet needs and weak cognitive skills like attention, auditory processing, and memory can drive behavior. 

Subscribe for more practical parenting advice with a brain-based lens, share this with a mom or dad who needs a laugh today, and leave a review to help other families find us. What’s the one parenting moment you can finally laugh about now?

About The Dumb Dads

The Dumb Dads are a popular comedy duo and content creation team featuring Evan Berger and Kevin Laferriere, known for their relatable, self-deprecating take on modern fatherhood. Two real life Stay-At-Home dads for years, after having met in sketch comedy, create parenting-focused content and have an honest dialogue about what it means to be a parent. They host the Dumb Dad Podcast and produce content across TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, focusing on engaged, hands-on parenting. Find them at https://thedumbdads.com/ and on social media @TheDumbDads except for on Facebook where you can find them @DumDadPod instead (I know…we thought that was dumb, too.)

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Read the transcript for this episode:

NOTE: This transcript was auto-generated by an AI assistant that thinks it’s smarter than we are. It’s not, but it has more free time than we do, so we gave it a low-stakes job. It probably spelled a few things wrong, but we’re okay with that. We’d rather spend our time interviewing cool guests!

200th Episode Kickoff And Guests
Dr. Amy Moore 0:00
Hi, Smart Moms and Dads, we are so glad that you’ve joined us for this extra special and possibly funny 200th episode of the Brainy Moms Podcast, brought to you by LearningRx Brain Training Centers. I’m Dr. Amy here with my co-host Sandy. And before we introduce our guests for this 200th episode, we want to invite you to sign up for our free monthly newsletter at theBrainymoms.com. It is filled with information and tips related to our podcast topics each month. So don’t miss out. And now, our conversation today is with the Dumb Dads, Evan and Kevin. Let me tell you a little bit about them in case you don’t know them yet. According to the internet, which is never wrong, the dumb dads are a popular comedy duo, Evan Berger and Kevin LaFerrier, who create relatable content on TikTok, YouTube, and their podcast about the chaotic realities of modern parenting. Formally stay-at-home dads, they use self-deprecating humor, like we do, to challenge traditional uninvolved fatherhood stereotypes by highlighting engaged daily parenting. They believe in parenting harder, not dumber, which doesn’t make sense when you think about it, since they’re the dumb dads, but I digress. Anyway, let’s talk with them now. Welcome, Evan and Kevin, the dumb dads.

Evan Berger 1:24
Hello, hello. How are you?

Dr. Amy Moore 1:26
Good. How are you?

Kevin Laferriere 1:28
I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having us.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:30
Thank you so much for being here. So I I I ran across your Instagram, I don’t know, back in the fall. And I said, oh my gosh, how fun would it be? Like, how fun would it be just to hang out and talk with you guys for the sheer novelty of the Brady Moms versus moms versus the dumb dads.

Kevin Laferriere 1:52
I know.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:55
I said to Rebecca, our PR director, I’m like, you have to get them on. Just come get them on. I don’t care what you have to do. You have to get them on.

Kevin Laferriere 2:05
It sounds like a WWE matchup.

Dr. Amy Moore 2:14
Sandy sent me um well, who was it? I don’t know. What are you The announcer? Um football players.

Sandy Zamalis 2:23
Oh, the Kelsey brothers. Because she wanted to do like a lead up in um I don’t know if you’ve ever seen their podcast.

Dr. Amy Moore 2:30
Right. And I’m like, okay, but you know, one of them does like the harmony to that. And I’m like, yeah, that’s not gonna work if you don’t sing the harmony, Sandy.

Kevin Laferriere 2:41
Yeah. See, we don’t sing because we want them to listen past the first 30 seconds. Right. So we will lose them. There’s no harmony here. Have somebody had car speakers explode. Kind of kind of goes back to the hurting cat sound. Right.

Dr. Amy Moore 2:58
I dated this guy in college and I’m old, so I’m not gonna tell you how old. But um anyway, he had this car stereo, um, and he would get noise ordnance violation tickets. Oh, because the bass from the stereo, right, as you would drive through the neighborhood.

Evan Berger 3:21
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:22
Um you could feel it in your chest.

Evan Berger 3:25
Yeah. Wow. I’ve been in a car like that before, and it made me feel un like uncomfortable. It’s so like I don’t feel it feels like my body shouldn’t be reacting to sound.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:32
Right. It’s odd. Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 3:33
Yeah. It is weird to be like, I feel like I’m going to the bathroom, but I know I’m not.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:41
Yeah. I feel like you’re going to the bathroom here.

Evan Berger 3:44
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:46
And I don’t know the relevance of that story. Like, I don’t really. I don’t know why that just blew out of my mouth.

Kevin Laferriere 3:52
That’s all right.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:52
Um I you know.

Kevin Laferriere 3:54
It’s free and loose. I like it.

Dr. Amy Moore 3:59
Right. Well, that’s how we are. We just sort of Yeah. Um so when you agreed to come on our show, like what did you envision happening?

Kevin Laferriere 4:11
I thought you were gonna figure out parenting for us. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 4:15
Oh.

Kevin Laferriere 4:15
The brainy moms and dumb dads, like, help us. We haven’t changed the name in five years for a reason. Yeah, if you could just give us like a like a list, a list, a quick short list of how to No, I was I was I was just as tickled as you were when I got when we got the email. I it was the same thing of like, huh? Nice. And then I listened to some of your podcasts, and I was even more tickled because you have one, and you’re like, this guy has a PhD in theology and psychology, and this guy is a doctor, he won the Nobel Peace Prize for getting his kids to eat vegetables. And I was like, I can’t wait for our intro. Like, these guys have been to the doctors. Clearly, if you’re watching this, they they they don’t listen to the doctors, yeah, but they go. They’ve heard of them. I’ve heard of doctors, I’ve taken to my children to the doctors. Uh right. These are the these two dads are the only ones who get a punch card at the doctor’s office because they go so much.

Dr. Amy Moore 5:25
Well, that interview that was Dr. Rinton Rathbun, he was amazing, by the way. Like, but I was kind of nervous because I thought this guy has three master’s degrees and a PhD, and that makes me feel dumb because I only have one master’s and one PhD, right? And so I’m like, how am I gonna keep up with him? That’s how I felt. But yeah, you know, he didn’t make me feel too stupid.

Evan Berger 5:48
And that is just a taste of how we feel sitting here.

Kevin Laferriere 5:52
Yeah. I don’t I think you could gather up all my friends, they don’t have that many degrees.

Evan Berger 6:00
I like I like filling out anything, form online or in person, and getting to check some college. Some college. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:09
Some college somewhere.

Evan Berger 6:12
I tried some of it. I tried some of it. It wasn’t for me at the time. And the teachers agreed.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:21
Okay. So if it makes you feel any better to know this, I did fail out of college twice.

Speaker 3 6:28
Okay.

Kevin Laferriere 6:29
Not really.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:30
Before I got my action. Yeah. Well, that’s great.

Kevin Laferriere 6:35
So you dropped out twice. What was the breaks in between?

Dr. Amy Moore 6:40
Um so the first time I went one semester.

Kevin Laferriere 6:46
Okay.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:47
And then took the second semester off, and then went one semester. Now I failed, right? The first semester. And this is here’s why, like in my defense. Um, I was 16 when I graduated from high school and I went to the main campus of University of South Carolina, 40,000 people, all of a sudden, no mom to tell me what to do and when to do it. And so I just thought partying was more fun than going to class.

Speaker 3 7:18
Yeah. Well, it is.

Dr. Amy Moore 7:19
Yeah. Um, anyway, so so went to went to school for a semester, did not go to school for a semester, went back to school for a semester, then changed schools.

unknown 7:30
Okay.

Dr. Amy Moore 7:30
Went to College of Charleston. Um, and I think I stayed about three weeks.

Evan Berger 7:36
Yeah.

unknown 7:37
Okay.

Dr. Amy Moore 7:38
And then Hurricane Hugo hit.

Kevin Laferriere 7:40
Where does the base come in? Base car. Oh, yeah. Is that is that is that first semester? Or no.

Dr. Amy Moore 7:48
So so so I don’t count College of Charleston, right? Because I only went to class for three weeks. Yeah. But I stayed in Charleston for like the rest of the year, and that that guy.

Kevin Laferriere 8:00
Heck yeah. That guy.

College Habits And Why They Stick
Dr. Amy Moore 8:02
The base driving car guy, that was a Randy. Yeah.

Evan Berger 8:07
We are in the middle of getting my son. My son is going to be joining middle school next year. And one of the biggest things that they were talking about is like basically if you go to an elementary school, it’s supposed to set you up. Like fifth grade, it fifth grade specifically is supposed to set you up for like what middle school is supposed to be, and then the entire process of middle school is supposed to set you up to have success in high school, and then of course on and on and on. But they made a point to say like our goal is to like start talking about college sort of in middle school, so that they just have the mindset of like the journey starts here to get to college. And then additionally, uh, that if basically kids that graduate or I mean kids that finish, sorry, their first year of college are more likely by this huge percentage to finish college because they did the first year, as opposed to if they stop, then it’s so much harder to like go back to it and finish. So, first of all, congratulations to you. You said twice and still did it. But I just thought that was so interesting that it was like if you do the first year, you finish the first year, you s there’s and it was something like 90% of the kids will then go on to finish college, as opposed to those who like take a break or they don’t finish the first year or whatever, then it’s just so much harder to get into it and and finish. So when they said that, I was like, oh, they probably I probably should have finished the first year.

Dr. Amy Moore 9:26
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s probably some science there, like right, like where you create habits and patterns and and plus you’ve then you’ve it got this investment, right? Okay, I can do this, I’ve experienced some success, hopefully. I don’t know. Like my son, my youngest is at Colorado State University, and they have a rule that um you have to live on campus the first year unless you have at least 45 post-high school credits before you get there, blah, blah, blah. Because they’ve done some, you know, data collection saying that that increases the likelihood. Yeah. So um anyway, he he has his own apartment, but whatever.

Kevin Laferriere 10:10
I I love that it’s studies. Like they’re trying to make it sound smart, where they’re like studies show, and it’s like it’s teenagers will wander down the hall into a classroom. They won’t get in the car.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:23
Exactly.

Kevin Laferriere 10:24
That’s what the that’s what the study is.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:26
Right. And it’s snowing in Colorado. They’re not going to ride their bike. Right, exactly. Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 10:32
They can bleary-eyed stumble into a classroom. Doesn’t even matter if it’s theirs, we’ll teach them. That’s first year caller.

Evan Berger 10:39
Right, exactly.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:40
Just click one.

Evan Berger 10:41
If they’re in property, it’s it’s the success rate’s higher. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:46
Well, yeah, like half, you know, half the time you hear about schools that don’t even give grades anymore. Right? Just show up. Here’s your ribbon.

Kevin Laferriere 10:54
That was an option. I got uh I got grades. They gave me grades.

Dr. Amy Moore 10:59
Yeah, we did too. But we’re old. Sandy, I’m so sorry. I’m dominating the conversation.

Sandy Zamalis 11:06
I am just listening.

Dr. Amy Moore 11:07
So sometimes Sandy dominates the conversation, and then I sit here with all these words that you know kind of build up and build up and build up. And then I’m like, Sandy, you just gotta sit there while I talk now.

Kevin Laferriere 11:19
Sandy, go, no pressure. Make it good.

Kid Ages Dino Debates And Book Fair Chaos
Sandy Zamalis 11:22
All right, so we got to find out how old Evan’s kids were when he hopped on the call, but we jumped right in. So, Kevin, share with us how old your kids are.

Kevin Laferriere 11:35
My son is gonna turn seven this weekend, uh, and and I my daughter is nine.

Dr. Amy Moore 11:41
So you have velociraptors too. Yeah.

Evan Berger 11:45
I do.

Kevin Laferriere 11:45
And one of them loves velociraptors.

Evan Berger 11:47
Yeah, one of them I was gonna say, one of them technically could be considered he identifies as a velociraptor. He knows a lot about it.

Kevin Laferriere 11:53
And I Lilo, I know a lot about it. And I wonder, did I do this to my parents? Do they like do they know obscure dinosaur facts? Like I didn’t know a pterodactyl wasn’t a dinosaur. It’s not. It’s a flying reptile. Which I think should mean dinosaur. I think it’s stupid. I know. But every book we’ve read is like, it’s not technically a dinosaur. It’s like knock it off, man.

Dr. Amy Moore 12:18
No, but Pluto’s not a dinosaur planet. Or it is a planet, or now it’s not a planet. Yeah.

Evan Berger 12:24
Make up your mind. You know what it is? A dinosaur, and you know what it is a planet. That’s easy. We can just we don’t have to Right.

Dr. Amy Moore 12:31
They’re just not like to be there.

Evan Berger 12:34
Yeah. Yeah. They had their time, right? They had their time.

Dr. Amy Moore 12:37
Yeah, exactly.

Kevin Laferriere 12:39
It just seems like bullying. It just seems like bullying. Yeah, you can hang out, but you’re like, you’re not a dinosaur. Okay? Like you can hang out with T-Rex and stagosaurus, but like, you’re not a dinosaur. So they’re not around to defend themselves. So it’s not really it just doesn’t feel fair. Because now they’re saying, I mean, they’ve been saying for a long time, that dinosaurs evolved into birds. So we’re saying the only bird dinosaurs aren’t dinosaurs, but the rest got to turn into birds? It’s bullying.

Dr. Amy Moore 13:07
Right?

Kevin Laferriere 13:09
It’s bullying. And it needs to stop. It stops here.

Dr. Amy Moore 13:12
It’s a genius thought process.

Evan Berger 13:15
I love the where this is one of the things where there’s moments where Kevin’s doing this and his son’s like, Can we just read the next page, please? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kevin Laferriere 13:25
Yeah. Who would win books? We read those a lot. I get furious.

Dr. Amy Moore 13:29
Uh I saw that reel that you made. Like, you weren’t loving that.

Kevin Laferriere 13:34
I just, it gave me real facts about these animals. So I am just trying to figure it out. Like, all right, there’s a riddle in here somewhere. And then they’ll just be like, oh, a bear showed up. And it’s like Caterpillar wins. And you’re like, well, hold on. That’s not how this is supposed to work. We’re not tagging in.

Evan Berger 13:53
Those were those are hugely popular, uh, popular at the book fair. They’re very popular at the book. Flying off the floor.

Dr. Amy Moore 14:00
Along with the glitter pens and all the other stupid stuff they’re selling at book fairs now that aren’t books. Right.

Kevin Laferriere 14:07
Here’s the thing glitter pens, fine, journals, fine, books, of course, the other stuff. But those pointers, it’s just a plastic stick with a with a gloved hand pointing. Those kids go crazy for it. I go, what are you gonna do with this? I don’t understand it.

Evan Berger 14:22
I made so much fun of those the first year, and then one of the teachers actually said, I like to have these kids have it at the desk so when they go up to the Promethean board or the board or whatever, they can you they’re supposed to use it and point to what they’re talking about because they’re so short little kids. And I was like, all right, fine. I thought it was stupid, but I bet that’s a good point. No pun intended. It’s for the teachers, but the kids. But they’re just gonna hit each other with them. So you know.

Kevin Laferriere 14:49
I love the book fair. My wife was uh I usually do the book fair every year. My wife did it this year, like was there every day, and there was one parent who called in and the like principal or somebody passed it along to my wife that was like, Hey, so this is this parent’s phone number. They’re pretty angry, and she’s like, Oh, okay, what happened? And she’s like, They just think that their kid bought uh junk. And my wife is like, Yeah. Yeah, they probably did. I don’t even know what kid, but yes, is the answer. What do they want us to do? You gave them money and set them loose. And like, we all know the book fair is more than but what do we what? She was very confused. She’s like, Do you want me to talk to them? Because I will be like, Well, what did you think was gonna happen? Send them into the grocery store. They’re not coming out with vegetables.

Speaker 6 15:38
Right.

unknown 15:38
Right.

Evan Berger 15:39
It’s like that’s what that’s also why the family night exists. So you can just come on that night and help them buy their books. But when you come in on recess, yeah. They’re leaving with chocolate calculators. I don’t know what to tell you. I’m sorry.

Dr. Amy Moore 15:53
Um bubble cigarettes. Lesson in autonomy and independence. I mean, these are important milestones. Let’s focus on the possibility.

Kevin Laferriere 16:02
Financial responsibility when they come home and they go, it broke, you go, uh-huh. Yeah, it did. Now you’re learning. Don’t what your scholastic book fair is what our infomercials were as kids. Don’t buy it if it seems too good to be true. It’s gonna break when they mail it in.

Dr. Amy Moore 16:24
Okay, so I have a question.

Speaker 6 16:26
Yes.

Dr. Amy Moore 16:27
Um, so your podcast is called Dumb Dad, but your brand is the Dumb Dads.

Evan Berger 16:35
Kind of. We started the We started the podcast first because when we we met doing sketch comedy and we um we always kind of kept thinking of ways to work together. Um and then we we were the first two, like of our friends group that all did sketch everything to have kids. And it was like, and then no one else had kids, and we’re like, okay, well so we used to just take our youngest, like when Kevin and I had like one-year-olds, you know, one and a half and one-year-old or like six-month-old, we would just take them to the zoo and like push them around and chat and talk about stuff and ideas, and we thought, what if we we eventually decided we should do a podcast? It’d be fun to do a podcast, and it all was based off of an inside joke about like the dads we’d watch on television growing up that were just like so uninvolved, like couldn’t figure anything out, making fun of the dumb dad, you know. So we started a podcast thinking, like, why don’t we just and we started it right when he had his second? Because it was like we can just start from basically zero. We have a little bit of right before right before.

Kevin Laferriere 17:28
We have right before three or four three or four podcasts in before you know.

Evan Berger 17:32
So we had a little bit of experience. We he had one, I had two kids at the time, and it was like, okay, so we have a little bit of experience, but we can also just talk about like the modern stay-at-home dad’s role as to like what’s gonna happen from like birth to as keep going, and then we just thought, and it just needs to be consistent. We need to make it sure we do it every week. Um, and then later came during pandemic, we started making social media posts and everything. So we thought, like, well, if we’re no, if we’re the dumb dad podcasts, we actually we first called it Dumb Dad Pod. It was like that was our handle at Dumb Dad Pod. And then because it was during the pandemic, it was so clear that people thought, like, oh, they think like we’re a pod. So then we changed it to the dumb dads. It’s like, okay, yeah, we’re the dumb dads, but like we have the dumb dad podcast and all this other stuff we do. So it was kind of like trying to make it separate a little bit, but the whole podcast started with just let’s just talk about what it’s like to feel like it’s you know, being a dad now with social media and the internet and like all this, you know, all this stuff that that um it doesn’t it didn’t at the time feel like a lot of dads would talk about that kind of stuff. I mean, there was we’d look up like dad podcasts, podcasts about being dads, and there’s like six of them. And they recorded an episode once every six months, and it was like, all right, so there there’s a there’s an opportunity here for us to just get dads talking about being dads or listening to other dads talk about being dads. And so that was the whole reason we started it. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 18:53
Yeah, but that doesn’t answer my question, Evan.

Evan Berger 18:56
Well, then Kevin can do it.

Dr. Amy Moore 18:57
Why why is the why is the podcast singular, but your brand is plural?

Kevin Laferriere 19:05
So in our uh Sum College and we’re uh some college. We we we got in the whole $30,000 on a bunch of dumb dad. They didn’t put the yes in because we didn’t write it in, and it was like we uh we gotta move forward with this. We gotta live with this now. No, it it it goes back to what Evan was saying. So when we were post were the dumb dads, like both of us are the dumb dads, and this is uh for the podcast, it’s the dumb dad. It’s about the like it’s again, well, I’m saying the dumb dad is the the TV dad. So like the wife gets the flu and then the husband has to take over. It’s like every TV show did it where the wife got sick, you gotta take the kids to the play. Right. And he doesn’t know where the school is. Where’s the school? Yeah. Yeah. Burns the house down, making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich somehow. It’s like all of that. That’s that this that is the dumb dad, and that was where we kind of again, where we started with uh Evan and I act as well. So a lot of it too was like it still happens with like commercials. What kind of where are you going today? Uh what kind of what are you auditioning for? Um a dumb dad. Just because like you’re a dad like just doing something dumb, and then the wife hands you bounty because you were using like your pants to clean up something or whatever, you know? And um I will take that job if somebody’s they write themselves, man. Happy to do it. You’re gonna do it anyway. I will I’ll be there. But so that was that is what the dumb dad is. It’s about the dumb dad and how we are pushing away from the trope of the dumb dad. So the reason why it’s plural is because like that’s what we are together, and the podcast is more about pushing against that trope of the dumb dad, which is because we’re stay-at-home dads. Um, our wives, I mean, we’re always stay-at-home dads, like ever since we had kids. That was um what made my wife and I be like, I think we could start trying for a kid because she was working uh days nine to five, and I was uh I was bartending nights, and there was no overlap. And I was like, we could probably do this. And so I was a stay-at-home dad, and then I would bartend a few nights a week, but I didn’t start till like I don’t know, like nine or something like that. I’d work like nine to three. Uh my wife would like wake me up as she was like walking out the door. She’d like tagged me in, like, you’re up. I was like, oh, okay. And then yeah, go to the zoo and all that stuff. We’re just like pushing back against the dumb dad trope, is what the podcast is.

Evan Berger 21:23
Now if you could clip that off, I think Kevin just actually gave us our thesis statement. We could have that. That’s pretty good.

Dr. Amy Moore 21:30
Well, I was gonna say that. Check an enormous amount of words.

Kevin Laferriere 21:36
Yeah. It it it podcasts for dumb not smart men.

Evan Berger 21:48
I’m uh dumb, but involved.

Kevin Laferriere 21:54
We we did dumb dad podcast because the run on sentence uh was already taken, so

Evan Berger 22:01
What do you mean character limit?

Losing It Over Inanimate Objects
Dr. Amy Moore 22:05
Perfect. Um so uh question. Um how do you react to inanimate objects when they don’t work properly or break?

Kevin Laferriere 22:20
Okay. That was a long walk. I was like, where is this going?

Evan Berger 22:26
Um like you know, when the TV isn’t working, it’s the remote’s fault, is what you’re asking.

Speaker 3 22:31
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 22:31
Yeah, or like when the leaf blower doesn’t come on. Or when a light bulb falls out of the fixture randomly while you’re trying to install something. I don’t know. Inanimate objects, how do you react?

Kevin Laferriere 22:48
It’s a case-by-case basis because if the leaf blower breaks, that might be exciting, because now this is our day. Um so let’s break out the tools. This is exciting. Um a table that somehow got in front of me when I was walking. Words are said, things that you can’t take back.

Dr. Amy Moore 23:11
Like like she’s words or just one or two words?

Kevin Laferriere 23:16
Like, is it like a run-on sentence of words or I’ve seen the rants from the dads online, they’re very funny, like when somebody’s like what you’re talking about, like a light fixture, and then the the guys like lose it. I think it’s usually just like one or one sentence under my breath, but it’s more for me because I think it’s funny. The sentence?

Evan Berger 23:40
I have a s so I we Kevin and I have talked about this before, like it’s it’s sort of making fun of that guy because it’s like if if it’s the remote’s fault or the hammer’s fault, or whatever, that’s like you gotta you got some stuff you gotta deal with, buddy. Like you’re the one holding it, you know?

Dr. Amy Moore 23:54
That’s user error.

Evan Berger 23:55
Because it’s a hundred percent user error. And like literally two nights ago, I was coming home late and my my wife was asleep, and so all the lights were off, and I was coming down the hall and I completely forgot that we had this like big we were, you know, changing over like winter clothes to like spring clothes. This huge heavy bin sitting in the hallway, totally totally forgot it was there, and I’m walking at normal pace, and I my shin hit it, just like my shin bone. And it’s like, you know, whatever, 12 o’clock or something, so no big noise can happen. Or or rant, you know, it was just like my chin is like throbbing. And then even just hitting it wakes her up, she goes to the bathroom, and I said, I whispered, Did you hear me try to fold my leg in half in the hallway just now? I’m like, it was like that was on me. I forgot it was there, and the throbbing pain in my leg was like, how stupid am I? That it was like it was there an hour ago. It was there, it’s been there for a week, you know. Like I just completely forget that it’s there. Now, having said that, Kevin is correct, it’s also a case-by-case scenario because I owe such a massive debt of gratitude to the person that invented wireless headphones. Because when I would walk around with headphones wired into my pocket, and if I caught it on a door handle and it got yanked out of my ears quickly, never in my life have I ever wanted to put my hand through a wall. Because again, I was so mad when that would happen. So that is the headphone’s fault. And I will die on that hill.

Speaker 6 25:30
Yeah.

Evan Berger 25:31
But it’s usually your fault. It’s user error, it’s always user error.

Kevin Laferriere 25:34
I uh this is like uh similar, maybe this is one of your next questions, but it’s kind of in this similar vein. I had to spend a long time explaining to my children in the car why longer than I wanted to, why I name other drivers. And I didn’t tell them the real reason, which is because I’d prefer to cuss them out, and I stopped doing that. But more I just go like, Jacob, what are we doing, man? You gotta go. And then like another one, like Ti Tiffany, you got the green. When you’re in the front and on the left turn, Tiffany, you gotta go. There’s a responsibility. So how do you know her name? I was like, Oh, I don’t, I make it up. It’s just something I do. And they go, but like, why Tiffany? I was like, this is already Tiffany move. This is already so much longer than I want it to be. But we talked for like twenty twenty minutes about it. Yeah. Because then they were like, who’s that guy? I was like, that’s Dennis. You go, Yeah, he does look like a Dennis. I was like, well, oh, hold on now. We’re not bullying. It’s just a name. Dennis here. Dennis here. But yeah, I think I I think I threaten the objects under my breath. Like if I yeah, like stuck my toe on a table. I’d be like, I hope this house burns down and you’re stuck in here. Um, there’s nothing.

Toys To Ban And Battery Rage
Evan Berger 26:55
It’s like but that’s even funnier, like a table that has been there for six years. Like the table’s never moved.

Sandy Zamalis 27:02
That’s a good segue. Um, since we’re talking about inanimate objects, let’s figure out from your perspective, what toy would you ban from the earth today if you could?

Kevin Laferriere 27:14
Slime.

Sandy Zamalis 27:16
Why? Slime. That’s valid.

Dr. Amy Moore 27:21
What do you have against slime, Kevin?

Kevin Laferriere 27:23
Yeah. Oh, I don’t know. It’s ghost sweat. What? It’s what ghost sweat. Watch Ghostbusters once ever. When they’re running, it comes off them and it’s on the walls. Yeah. It’s everywhere. Um I think because my wife did do something last year with slime that I thought was pretty clever, which is she bought a gigantic bottle of glue and all like all of the other stuff that you make with it. And during the summer, she was like, You guys can go outside, we’ll make slime, and when you’re done, it goes in the trash. And they were like, Okay. So they would make slime almost every day, play with it for a while, and then it goes, it doesn’t come inside because it just grabs your carpet, and you’re like, This is forever. I’m gonna be here forever now. I just don’t like it. It’s gross and bothers me. Why? What’s your toys? Tell me a better one. I dare you.

Sandy Zamalis 28:23
Well, let’s let Evan go first. Evan wants your toys.

Evan Berger 28:31
Wow, gosh. I don’t I can’t think of anything that I would just ban. I mean I have to think about it for a second. I there’s there wasn’t a lot of things.

Kevin Laferriere 28:42
Evan usually says Evan usually says books, so I don’t know why he’s being shy. Uh that’s usually what Evan his go-to. Burn, ban, burning thing. Learning.

Sandy Zamalis 28:52
Um my husband would say anything that’s a good thing.

Kevin Laferriere 28:58
He went that way. Anything that’s loud?

Sandy Zamalis 29:00
Loud and repetitive.

Dr. Amy Moore 29:01
So I was gonna say drums. No kid drums ever. You want to play drums, you play it at the music department at school. You don’t play it in the house. And I have a child, I have a child who’s a music performance major in college. So I I can appreciate fine music, but not drums.

Evan Berger 29:23
You withheld it so much that he was like, I have to do this. I have to do this.

Kevin Laferriere 29:26
He doesn’t even like music, he just wants to experience it. So he had to go there to do it. It wasn’t allowed in the house. He just made it like it.

Dr. Amy Moore 29:33
So he actually plays the flute. Have you ever heard a fifth or sixth grader learning flute?

Evan Berger 29:39
We are currently in recorder phase.

Dr. Amy Moore 29:42
Yes. So so think recorder, but higher and louder and screechier. And I have mesophonia. Do y’all know what misophonia is?

Speaker 3 29:51
Yes.

Dr. Amy Moore 29:52
Yes. And so that was a tough season.

Kevin Laferriere 29:55
Um wait, is it misophonia the is that the chew it, the food one?

Dr. Amy Moore 30:02
Or is it well it’s any it’s the it’s an intense emotional response to sound, to certain sounds.

Kevin Laferriere 30:08
It’s not just it’s not just food.

Dr. Amy Moore 30:10
It’s not just food. No. I thought it was just food.

Kevin Laferriere 30:12
Oh yeah, that’s what it might be.

Dr. Amy Moore 30:14
Actually, I can hear my husband. So he’s uh he was a fighter pilot, and so he has this unique way of clearing his ears, right? That they teach pilots so they don’t burst their eardrums. And I can hear him clearing his ears inside his head. When he clears his clearing your ears. Yeah, he he always warns people. He’s like, if I show up dead, it’s because I was clearing my ears.

Kevin Laferriere 30:47
Oh, that’s funny. I I got the I have the ears, I have the dad ears. My wife has the nose, so smells bother her.

Speaker 6 30:55
Um I thought of my toy. Okay.

Evan Berger 31:01
Anything that has yeah, thank you. Um anything that has like when you open something and it not only does it require batteries, but it’s like a special battery. Like, first of all, we should uh why are we not why isn’t anything just plug it in to charge it? We should have graduated from batteries a thousand years ago. But then when you open it and it’s like, this is a C13 battery, and like I’ve never even heard of that before. Which means this toy will exist until the battery runs out.

unknown 31:31
Yeah.

Evan Berger 31:31
But that’s annoying to me, or if it takes a screwdriver to get it out, it’s always a screwdriver, a baby little screwdriver, as if the batteries are trying to escape the toy.

Kevin Laferriere 31:41
I mean So, so Sandy, I think this is more of his inanimate object answer uh more than his toy answer. It it kind of, you know, it goes to the I think this is the inanimate object toy and uh the screaming. They kind of coexist in the uh so you’re you’re you’re pro you’re you’re uh Amy, you’re you’re pro-Slime anti-music. Is that what it is?

Dr. Amy Moore 32:11
Um I’m not anti-music. I’m just anti-banging on a drum incessantly for hours at a time with zero rhythm.

Kevin Laferriere 32:21
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Because I was worried that you like turned off footloose halfway through or something.

Dr. Amy Moore 32:27
No. No, I did not like the remake. I only liked the Kevin Bacon version of Footloose. But I’m old, right? So that was my middle school era.

Evan Berger 32:39
Maybe high school. Speaking right to your heart.

Sandy Zamalis 32:42
Yeah. My kids, when they were young, they had this um wipeout ball. It we called it the wipeout ball, but it was like a vibrating ball that played the wipeout song. It was motion activated. And they could not turn it off. They loved it. They loved it for years. But like it would go in the toy box, and anytime you throw another toy on top top of it, you’d hear the giggle. It would do it. The giggle, and then wipe out. And then we’d have to listen to the whole thing until it finished. So hence the nothing loud and repetitive.

Evan Berger 33:15
We had this thing, we had this like llama that would like play this music and dance. You’d set it down and it would dance. It was actually really funny, but the same thing, it would be somewhere, and you wouldn’t even know where it was per se, but you’d like be cleaning the room or something, and then you would hear it go off. And it was like, where is that? I don’t even know where that is. It would go off like all the time and like bury it under a pile of clothing or something.

Kevin Laferriere 33:34
I think that is the thing. That is an inanimate object that makes me rage, is when I’m laying down with my kids and I just hear a dinosaur in the like the toy bin area just on a loop. And you’re like, why is it still making that sound? Why wouldn’t it just make it once? And I have to get up now.

Dr. Amy Moore 33:52
It’s motion activated. Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 33:54
And it’s yeah, that’s not great.

Dr. Amy Moore 33:57
We um we have this motion activated snowman in our Christmas decoration box that my husband with joy brings out every year. And it sits in the bathroom on the back of the toilet. It’s motion activated. So anytime you walk into the bathroom, it goes, what you doing? You’re looking a little bit flushed. Get it? Flushed. And you’re like, I’ve been listening to this snowman for 30 years. When will it die?

Evan Berger 34:31
Oh my goodness.

Dr. Amy Moore 34:34
Every Christmas with joy. What is she doing?

Kevin Laferriere 34:39
Like he’s never heard the joke before. That’s like so that’s like his that’s his uh singing bass. That’s what that is.

Dr. Amy Moore 34:48
Yes. We had that too. Hit my husband’s father bought that as a form of torture for me.

Evan Berger 34:56
Yes, yeah. It’s it’s funny being a it’s like it’s funny the gifts you give as a parent to other parents are so different. When you’re like, oh my my k my friend’s having a kid. I don’t have kids. What should I get them? And then I have no idea what to get, potentially something like that, that’s really annoying. Whereas now it’s like you’re so conscious of like, well, this will make too much noise, they’re not gonna want that. This will make a mess, they don’t want that. Like you try to give like a a kid a gift for their birthday, the other parents are gonna be like, Thank you.

Speaker 6 35:23
Thank you for that.

Evan Berger 35:24
I gotcha.

Speaker 6 35:25
Yeah. I got you.

Kevin Laferriere 35:27
This is the version that um doesn’t make sound. I took the batteries out, just don’t ever charge it. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 35:32
It just looks pretty.

Evan Berger 35:33
There are no batteries.

Dr. Amy Moore 35:34
But sit there and look pretty.

Evan Berger 35:36
I sewed the flap shut to cover the batteries. You’ll never get to them.

Sandy Zamalis 35:40
My next question for you is do you have a man cave? And if you do, are your kids allowed in it? That’s a good question, Sandy.

unknown 35:49
No.

Evan Berger 35:50
Yes, kids are not allowed in the office there.

Kevin Laferriere 35:54
Yeah, this is uh my office, but I also uh we do work in here. My wife works in here. Uh she went remote in COVID and is stayed that way. So but they yeah, they still come in. Uh I I’ve never that’s a wild thing to have. If you can have it, that’s amazing. But no kids allowed is bizarre. That’s one thing to have. Like to get your own room, sh sure. The cool, I guess. If I can’t believe your spouse surrendered that. But the the fact that you uh can’t let the kids in there, I I don’t understand that at all.

Evan Berger 36:29
The idea that like you just need to escape to your own space. But like and you’re the only one that gets you’re the only one that gets to have it is a bit wild to me. Like a man like I would like yeah, I would like to have my own room where I decorate however I want, and but it’s not like, all right, now no one’s allowed in here. It’s like that’s weird.

Dr. Amy Moore 36:50
It is weird. I think it’s weird too. Like, I don’t understand that need to be alone. Like, why’d you marry me if you don’t want to be with me all the time?

Evan Berger 37:00
If it’s a space like, I mean, in total truth, I would like to have a room that I had like a golf simulator in. I love golf, and I could put my my specific posters up that like wouldn’t look good in the house or whatever. But like my wife would also be able to have a space like that if she desired one. Or and it’s also like, guys, come in. Let’s play like but the the my only space thing is weird. Everyone should be able to observe and enjoy. It’s like that’s the same thing.

Sandy Zamalis 37:27
Now my husband would disagree because um really? Oh, he built some 2400 square foot man building. Man building to which he can retreat and work on projects.

Kevin Laferriere 37:41
So wait, is he doing like woodworking in there? What do you mean by woodworking?

Sandy Zamalis 37:45
He’s uh he’s a mechanical engineer and he loves cars, so um, it’s all engine building and all that kind of stuff. And the kids are allowed to enter. Yeah, the kids are allowed to enter, but the you know it’s with supervision.

Kevin Laferriere 37:59
That’s tricky though, because he’s like working with gadgets. I guess when you’re asking me that, I’m thinking of like a room to watch the game with with the fellas. That I don’t understand because those are all very simple things. And why wouldn’t you want to watch that with your kids? True. So I don’t I don’t know. That’s how I think of it too. Like it’s time. I don’t I do get needing time. Like you need to go for the Yeah, I don’t think it needs to be an insane amount of time, but I think like absolutely I think people need to decompress.

Dr. Amy Moore 38:27
Uh like all day on the river fishing without your wife every week at least two days.

Kevin Laferriere 38:38
Is he currently gone? We’re working out here.

Dr. Amy Moore 38:45
I mean, my husband takes advantage of the outdoor playground that is Colorado.

Kevin Laferriere 38:51
Yeah. I get yeah, that’s cool.

Dr. Amy Moore 38:53
Uh Evan and I think they’re all grown and gone. Our kids are in their 20s, right? So I don’t need help with children. Right. Like I think it’s different when you still have kids at home and you’re sharing the workload, the mental load, right? I like I think if my husband disappeared for days in a time to fish when the kids were little, I would have lost my mind, right? Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 39:14
So we didn’t so we didn’t do that.

unknown 39:16
Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 39:17
So he wasn’t doing he wasn’t doing that when the kid was.

Dr. Amy Moore 39:19
Well, he took them with him. He took them with him, unless, okay, funny story.

Kevin Laferriere 39:24
You got you got the time.

Dr. Amy Moore 39:25
So I did, because you know, I’m an indoor girl. I have three boys. Um, however, he did go through this phase where if the kids didn’t want to go out and play with him, he would give them chores instead. So the to hear them tell it now is really funny, right? Like, well, dad would ground us if we wouldn’t go play with him. He’s like, I’m going hiking, you know, I’m going, whatever, you know, whatever it was outdoors. So either come with me or pick up the dog poop outside for 12 hours. I mean, it was the light. Play with me or else. Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 40:06
Play with me. So they were basically like, which chore do I want to do less?

Dr. Amy Moore 40:13
Right. Ice and he’s an extreme outdoorsman, right? So if you go ice fishing, it’s an 18-hour ice fishing trip. So either come ice fishing with me or paint the garage.

Kevin Laferriere 40:27
The garage is gonna look great when you get back. Yeah. It’s gonna look so good.

Sandy Zamalis 40:32
Have you guys ever done that? Have you ever done like some sort of um extreme example of that? I know my husband decided to take us camping one year, and um, he bought us bikes, and we had like uh bike seats on the back for the kids, and he’s like, we’re gonna ride around this lake. Well, uh, lo and behold, there wasn’t a path the whole way. And so we ended up doing some some trail biking with our with our young ones.

Evan Berger 41:01
Yeah.

Sandy Zamalis 41:01
Ooh.

Evan Berger 41:02
For a family that’s not used to trail biking.

Sandy Zamalis 41:04
No, uh no, it was it was quite the endeavor. Um that’s what we like. I was curious to tell now because like my son fell asleep. Like he was bouncing around back there, like fell asleep biking. Oh, yeah, well, he was just riding in the back of the carrier. Oh, gosh, yeah. He was little. Bouncing around, but all that vibration knocked him out and ended up having to drop us off and pick us up by truck.

Evan Berger 41:29
Oh, it didn’t work out.

Sandy Zamalis 41:30
No, we didn’t make it the whole way.

Evan Berger 41:33
On our podcast, that’s what we like to call a dumb dad moment. That’s a good dumb dad moment. Like getting you know, way too excited about something you don’t fully think through, and then everyone else suffers because of it. It’s a pretty classic dumb dad moment.

Dr. Amy Moore 41:46
Okay, well then what is your biggest dumb dad moment?

Evan Berger 41:51
Biggest. Let me check the Rolodex here.

Dr. Amy Moore 41:53
I mean, you you opened the door for this conversation, right?

Evan Berger 41:56
No, I know, but we do it every week. Yeah, we do it every week.

Dr. Amy Moore 42:00
They’re just trying to figure out what their favorite is. Yeah, what’s your most recent dumb dad moment?

Kevin Laferriere 42:05
Oh, recent’s definitely not the best.

Evan Berger 42:11
My my recent dumb dad moment is an ongoing dumb dad moment, which is that the first three years of baseball that my son played, we go through the Rex department, uh, Parkson Rex department, and the experience is just so hands-off across the board that it’s like, why did I not sign up to coach? Like, this is so incredibly unorganized. And I’m not the guy that needs my my son’s not going to play Major League Baseball. I can tell you that right now, and neither are any of those kids. But the fact that it like it’s just so unorganized, no information. You get notified it’s practiced sometimes hours before. It was like, oh, this is like all the all the focus should only be that these kids are just like, maybe they could learn a little bit more about baseball, get a little bit better, but also have a great time and and like baseball. And it was like that wasn’t even like the focus, right? So this year I’ve 100% signed up and I’m like awaiting information to get started with my season. So the dub dad moment continues, and then I’m sitting here thinking that they’re on top of getting me information. And here we are, this guy’s like, Can you come draft the kids? I’m like, what do you mean, draft the kids? They’re like nine and ten years old. It’s like just make the teams fair and tell me who I am. And he’s like, No, you have to be here for the draft. So now I find myself at 9 30 p.m. in the parks and rec department with these other guys, like going down the list of like, I guess I’ll take Julian Martinez. But I don’t know who this is.

Sandy Zamalis 43:42
Did they come with photos like and rap sheets?

Evan Berger 43:44
Like, no, I had to go assess the players, but there’s like sixty players in this pool of like, you know, players that are gonna be like across five teams, but like a third of those kids showed up, so we could kind of write down, like, okay, this kid can throw. He can kind of catch. So it’s like I have an idea, but then no one else showed up. They just are expected to be put on a team. So it’s like, what do you mean draft what? Like, I don’t even know who any of these people are. I’ve never even seen them before. I don’t care if we win. I just want them to have fun and like we’re gonna get better at baseball. But like, what do you mean draft players? And it was like, we’re gonna go snake draft. So you’ll pick two ty two kids, and then we’ll come back and then you’ll pick two kids. It’s like okay. I think that was the night that I came home and obliterated my shin in the hallway. It’s like after I came back from writing, like grading kids about their baseball skill. So I’m current I’m like I’m in this like very long con dumb dad moment that I’ve placed on myself. Yeah. Yeah, that’s kind of like that. But I don’t know.

Dr. Amy Moore 44:45
I don’t know if you get to claim that as dumb dadness when it’s uh like the system that did it to you. Right?

Evan Berger 44:55
Inanimate object. I agree.

Dr. Amy Moore 44:58
It’s a system that you’re a victim of.

Evan Berger 45:01
Yeah. Well, I don’t really want to play that card, but it just feels you know, it’s like but I also have no business complaining about any of it, is what it feels like.

Kevin Laferriere 45:09
She’s I mean, she’s got you pegged, Evan. I mean Yeah, it’s true. Uh I I’ll just be like, oh, uh yeah, I also opened uh uh a shelter for dogs. Um anyway, my dumb dad moment is like, I don’t know if anybody’s gonna show up. I don’t know. Anyone else want to go? There’s plenty of dogs, Kevin, that needs shelters. That’s a terrible example. My my uh my my most recent it didn’t this one uh I’ll I’ll tell you my best. I’ll tell you my what one I thought was going to absolutely be a dumb dad moment. It didn’t turn out to be, so I that’s why I’ll give my my one of my all timers. But was we just went to Disneyland uh for my dad’s 70th, all the family was there, it was really fun. And my daughter really wanted to ride this, ride the credit coaster, which is a very fast roller coaster. And she’d been riding roller coasters all weekend, and this was like the end of the last day, and I was like, we gotta do it. And we had a reservation for it, but then everybody wanted to get dinner, and we sat down for dinner, and I was like, Whoo, okay, we have like an hour twenty before like our windows close. Let’s and we ate our food and then we like were like power walking slash jogging there, and I was like, Oh, this is a bad idea to have eaten as fast as we could before going on this roller coaster. I think she’s gonna get somebody wet uh behind her. But she was great and it worked out. So uh but I the whole time was like, this is where dumb dad moments are born, right here. It’s just like because I was just I was so excited and I was like, let’s go. And then my wife even said as we were like leaving, she’s like, You guys are gonna you’re gonna go? Like you guys just ate that food as fast as you could and you’re gonna go. And I was like, I see what you’re saying, but we’ve already committed. We gotta fight. Yeah. Lightning lanes, it’s right now, so we have to go.

Dr. Amy Moore 46:55
I mean, that’s self-critiquing, right? I mean, like it ha if it had turned out horribly, then you know, it’s a lesson uh that your daughter would have learned.

Evan Berger 47:04
What’s very rare is that you identify that it’s a dumb dad moment in the moment. It’s very rare. It’s usually full hindsight. Full hindsight. Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 47:13
Well, here’s but here’s the problem with that. I didn’t realize it, like I didn’t click the straps down and go, uh-oh. Like I was actively walking there. I was leaving the restaurant and going, I think we should still do it though. Because like until she barfs, it could be a really fun experience for her. That’s right. And then after it’s a nightmare.

Dr. Amy Moore 47:35
You’re weighing the cost benefit.

Kevin Laferriere 47:38
Yeah. That’s what I was doing. That’s all I do is it’s cost benefit. It’s that guy.

Sandy Zamalis 47:43
One of my favorite uh husband stories is um actually on a Disney cruise. Um but if on the Disney cruise, they have you have breakfast like really super early on your last day so that they can get all your stuff out. And um my son had ordered milk, and when he went to drink it, it it tasted bad. And my son is not one to like just hold that in. He’s enough gonna make a scene. At least he was, you know, when he was like that age.

Speaker 6 48:12
Express himself.

Sandy Zamalis 48:13
He was expressing himself. And my husband got mad and he grabbed his milk and he chugged the whole thing back. Like he because and my son was like, no, it’s disgusting, it’s disgusting. He drank the whole thing, kept a straight face the whole time. When we got to the airport, and my and he my husband turned to my son and said, That was the most disgusting thing I’ve ever drank in my entire life, but that is not how you behave in a restaurant.

Speaker 6 48:43
Oh my goodness.

Sandy Zamalis 48:44
Oh, and my son thought it was the funniest thing ever just because literally he knew what his dad done to himself. And he watched him the whole time going, he’s gonna throw up. Like I know, like the whole time he’s just like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. Here come the tears. He’s holding the vacational shivers.

Kevin Laferriere 49:10
I just love that his answer was was that was so disgusting, but that is not how you behave as if I didn’t have a choice. That was my only option was to drink it. It was the only way I could stop you. I was like, no, it was not. There’s so many other things you could have done.

Evan Berger 49:29
I tell you what, he was thinking of that the whole time he’s chugging that thing down. He’s like, yeah, this is this is a mistake, but now I’m pot committed to it.

Sandy Zamalis 49:36
And my husband is like squeamish, like he’s like it doesn’t take much to get in to lose it. So that’s why that is still one of our favorite stories to tell.

Evan Berger 49:48
Oh my god, that’s so good.

Dr. Amy Moore 49:50
I feel kind of left out of this conversation because I’m the I ironically, I am the dumb one in our family. And so I I have the dumb mom moments all the time because you know, Jeff gets everything right.

Kevin Laferriere 50:05
And so for weeks at a time. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 50:07
Right.

Kevin Laferriere 50:08
Hard to get something wrong at home if you’re not there.

Evan Berger 50:10
Yep. Boom, boom.

Dr. Amy Moore 50:13
He does not leave for weeks at a time. He leaves for, you know, 18 hours.

Speaker 6 50:16
Yeah, I get it.

Dr. Amy Moore 50:17
Um, yeah. So I told you my our youngest, whose name is Evan, by the way, um, is music performance major. So he wanted to perform his upcoming recital music for us uh last weekend when he was home for spring break. And it’s a very modern piece with these advanced techniques and the the he plays the flute. And it the composer wrote it so that the flute would sound like an old Japanese wooden flute rather than a regular flute. So it sounds very odd. And as I was sitting through the song, he was making strange noises with the flute, and one of them, I it was a sound I did not know existed in the world. Like I did not know it could exist.

Speaker 3 51:07
Sure.

Dr. Amy Moore 51:08
And I busted out laughing. He’s playing his song, and I busted out laughing. And the more I tried to stop myself from laughing, the more like he was. Oh no. The more I kept laughing. I said, Evan, I’m so sorry. I said, I just didn’t know that that sound existed in the world. And so it just so I like I couldn’t reel it in. And and so full disclosure, right? Like I have a neurodivergent brain, uh, you know, like wicked case of ADHD, no impulse control. I’m crying. Um it just went from bad to worse. And so then, you know, when you rupture a relationship with your child, there’s a lot of repair work that goes into that, right? And so while he understood, yes, this is a really odd piece. This is right. And part of being a music performance major is you have to play something in every genre, right? And it was a really difficult, advanced kind of technical piece.

Evan Berger 52:24
But that’s what makes it so funny because he’s like worked for weeks at this, like possibly months to like it’s such a difficult thing, and you’re laughing, but also you know that about him. So the fact that you’re laughing makes it that much funnier that you’re laughing. And so you can’t, there’s no way you’re gonna stop laughing. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 52:41
Right. And then he said, please don’t laugh during the performance. I’m like, Evan, I’m not gonna laugh during the performance.

Evan Berger 52:48
I have a fishing trip to go on.

unknown 52:50
Right.

Evan Berger 52:51
Yep.

Dr. Amy Moore 52:53
Like, I’ll take a valiant out of time or something.

Speaker 6 52:56
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 52:57
And he’s such a he’s an amazing musician, right? And so like it hurts your heart to hurt your child’s feelings like that. Like it’s he hasn’t spoken to me since. And no, I’m just kidding.

Kevin Laferriere 53:08
Um, let’s call him now. Let’s get him on the line. Yeah. Right? Don’t be fine. Put him in the roads, they’re gonna fix it. I get that though. It’s it’s it’s hard to like navigate that because you want to be like honest with your kids, especially on something that they’re like good at and passionate about, because you don’t want to like coddle them too much. Like you want to support them. There’s that that like fine line. So there is times where you do something and you’re like, uh, you know, this isn’t good, right? Like only because I’ve seen you do better. Like, you know what I mean? Like, but you’ve got to like ride that line of not like hurting their feelings. So uh that’s very funny. There’s something harder than laughing, and then your kid looking back at you and you’re like, oh no, we weren’t on the same page. Whoops. Yeah, all right. They’re like, well, it was funny. Nothing. Nothing.

Dr. Amy Moore 53:57
Uh so moving on, um enough about me and my fault.

Evan Berger 54:02
So I’m gonna say really quickly, I love that you shared that because that’s really what we have loved doing on our podcast all this time is like the idea that like presenting life to be so perfect on social media, and it’s like that’s not what it feels like in my house. What it feels like in my house is I’m constantly making mistakes and then trying to learn from them, but then I make a different mistake, and it’s like it’s just the journey of the circus for parenting, right? And so like it’s it’s it’s so much more relatable to talk to somebody about like who admits that they did something like that in the moment, it sucks. After the fact, it’s like, oh my god, how stupid did I feel in this moment? But we can learn from that and get try to be better at. So thank you for sharing that. And that’s why we share them all the time, because it’s like we can we can sit after the fact and like make fun of each other for the stupid things that we’ve done. You know, that’s that’s kind of what all this is, which we’ve done. Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Amy Moore 54:50
I mean, and I think that I think that that social media does do a disservice to parents because so many uh accounts um that you’re scrolling through are presenting what’s beautiful about their lives and not what’s real about their lives. Right. And then to to say, what am I doing wrong then, right? If my life doesn’t look as perfect and beautiful. Right. Um so yeah, I think that it’s I think it’s important to be vulnerable and honest and to show humor.

Sandy Zamalis 55:25
But and yeah, humor and grace. Like you have to for sure. What life is funny, like you’re gonna laugh about this story at some point. Yeah. It’ll it’ll go on for decades. The story will be told.

Kevin Laferriere 55:37
Yeah. Yeah, I definitely think social media is kind of just an an amplification of like the real life. Like pre-social media, you’re still having you’re still gonna have that mom at the park that’s gonna make you feel small because she buys her kids all the things and you either don’t want her or can’t afford those things. Um because you don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors with her and her family, but she’s presenting perfectly. You’re gonna occasionally run into another parent who’s like, I’m a disaster, and you’re like, oh thank God. Uh the problem with social media is it’s it’s is it’s the numbers. Like social media is f the only the biggest difference between social media is the people who can like hide behind saying awful things. Or it’s you know, you can say things from a distance, awful things. But other than that, it’s pretty similar to like woo what the the circles that we’re in now in the world where you have all those people. The problem is when the numbers are overwhelming, uh, and the big problem with social media is did you linger on that mom who made you feel small? The algorithm’s not reading your emotions, it’s reading your your watch time. So it’s like, oh, you like that? I can show you a ton of moms and dads that will make you feel bad. I got a bunch of them. And then they’ll then you will then you won’t see the moms who or the dads who are like, hey, we’re a disaster. This isn’t going well for any of us. And or, you know, you’re not alone, or any of that stuff. So that is like the the the biggest trick of the algorithm and and I think the reps just get to you of seeing the same thing that makes you feel small.

Handling Millions Of Comments With Humor
Sandy Zamalis 57:10
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Evan Berger 58:50
Uh the teachers, we we we make our children do it. We make our children respond to everything.

Kevin Laferriere 58:56
We’re like, they’re talking about you anyway.

Evan Berger 58:59
Might as well respond. No, we I mean, we try our best, I know, to like keep track of it, you know, it’s like check back in on whatever we’ve I mean, we post pretty much every day. So it maybe just we don’t have the time to go back through every single comment that gets sent to us, but try to be engaged maybe with the most current video either one of us or both of us have put out, and then just when people respond, try to respond back as many times as we can. And then the next day comes and the next one comes, and so it’s you know, it’s like I said, we can’t go far, you know, back when somebody comments on an old video, but we do try to stay engaged because that’s the thing that made this whole thing work for us, is that we we were able to kind of connect with uh at first, who was like a bunch of stay-at-home moms. We were thinking we’re gonna get this conversation of fatherhood going, um, not to be afraid to like, instead of like awkwardly talking at a group of guys about the game last weekend again, like that conversation’s fine, but it’s also really fun to be like, hey, how are your kids doing? What are they into? What are they, you know, what’s it like going at home? And like, but then the mom started reaching out to us, like, oh my god, this is like me every day. This is my everyday, what we started talking about. And so it was amazing to get that response because we never anticipated that, but also start talking to all of them in the comment section. It’s just like, you know, and they would add jokes to things, which is super fun. We would do a video that it’s a bit that had joke after joke after joke about a certain scenario, and then tons of comments like adding to it, or how about when they did this, or you find a Lego in this, and it’s like, oh, this is this is great. You know, it’s it was really fun to be in those engaging conversations. So is as much as we can, but it’s you know, I’ve it’s overwhelming to say the least when also the rest of our life has to happen.

Kevin Laferriere 1:00:41
Yeah. And we I and I also don’t think we we don’t for the most part, and I think a large part of it is because we’re men. Um men get it much easier on social media than women in terms of like the comment section. I can make a video, my wife can make the exact same video, and she’ll get dragged. Um just because like the bar for the men is on the floor. So if we’re making it like it’s it’s weird because we don’t lean into like even though we’re the dumb dads, we don’t all of our jokes and mistakes are of being active parents. So and we really don’t take a stance on stuff, um not in like a cowardly way, but more of just like, didn’t we all just start this agreeing we didn’t know what we’re doing and now we’re gonna pretend that we do know? Like it worked for you, you know. Science is you test multiple times. Well, this is a different test subject than your little test subject. They both make messes, but it’s gonna react to things differently. And I just think that there’s a lot of judgment on there, and I think we don’t we don’t take a ton of stances. We’re basically just like, this is our experiences of what we’re doing. And so I think for the most part, we don’t get a ton of criticism. And when we do, I think the the comment section is really great with parents who are just like, What are you what are you doing? Just to those people of just like that’s not even close to what he was saying. Relax about it. Yeah, yeah. Um and occasionally they’ll come in there, and then when they do, I think we just kind of for the most part ignore them or clarify, and if they still won’t learn. I mean, the problem is the loudest people don’t want to learn. That’s just always how it works. They want to say stuff and they don’t actually want to know your answer.

Controversial Posts And Where They Draw Lines
Dr. Amy Moore 1:02:24
Right. Right. They’re just haters. Right. What’s been your most controversial post?

Evan Berger 1:02:32
The there’s been I wouldn’t even say that controversial, but like the reaction we got from people was like, oh, that’s not what we were that’s not what we meant, or that’s not what we were trying to do. We did a video, um, I think I posted a video of like I can’t remember how it started, but in some way, the guy gets away with something and he realizes like, oh, it’s because I didn’t really it’s like I my my it was like my uh kid’s fault. So it’s like I got away with it because it’s a kid and the kid’s cute. And so I kind of then would like, if that meant this, then I could get away with this. And then it was like if I meant a lot of people. Weaponized incompetence. Yeah, weaponized incompetence was basically the idea of the video, but in the end, I made it so that he got his. It was like he used weaponized incompetence to get out of something, and then he gets invited to, you know, whatever, a golf trip, and he’s like, Oh, but you can’t go because you volunteered for whatever. And it’s like he got his in the end, but people didn’t watch it to the end and then started like this is weaponizing competence. This is not your guys’ brand. We don’t like this. This is my husband does this all the time. It’s so triggering, and it was like, uh, okay, not what I meant. Also, yeah, the whole joke was like, if you act like that, you will get busted for it eventually. But if you didn’t get to that point, then you had people coming in in the comment section, it was like, oh wow. But it if anything, it was like, okay, so I wasn’t leaning on that joke. I was kind of making an example of the joke, but it still taught us a lesson of like, okay, so we have to be very clear, very, very clear that we d that we don’t celebrate those kinds of things or whatever. But if you’re going to talk about it, it has to be so clear what your stance is on something like that, rather than what I did was just probably ride the line a little too closely, and then the payoff was 90 seconds, but people only had the patience for twelve, you know, so it’s like it didn’t it did not work.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:04:22
Are you intentional about the topics that you won’t uh address? Like, do you talk about that? Do you say, hey, we’re gonna stay out of certain spaces?

Kevin Laferriere 1:04:32
Um I guess what do you what do you mean?

Dr. Amy Moore 1:04:34
Like can you have an example of one or so I mean social justice topics or sexual orientation topics, things that can be divisive.

Kevin Laferriere 1:04:46
Do you all talk about, hey, we’re not even gonna go there, we’re just gonna stay in a in a space of So we c we kind of ride that line, probably more I don’t I I don’t know, probably more than we should that we ride that line um in terms of like we don’t post as much because we do have like obviously our own thoughts and opinions, and we have posted stuff and um one in particular did get, and I I’ll tell you about a second, but it did get a lot of there was a lot of comments back and forth. Um to a degree, it’s just kind of like this is what we want to talk about, and in a similar way of like why I’m not going to talk about uh sleep training or homeschooling is because I’m I’m also not gonna listen to the proverbial you about it because I I’m gonna talk to a a doctor who’s done like studies about it. I’m gonna like I’m gonna make my own educated decision. And I I think that’s a big problem with social media, is it’s a lot of like confirmation bias. And so we will back away from certain things, but sometimes we will speak up. There was um there was it it got more uh it got it got more attention than I thought it would. But there was the The kicker for the Kansas City Chiefs, Harrison Butker, he spoke at a Christian college and he gave this speech, and it was to the men and women graduates. And I took issue with it because these were people that accomplished a great thing, like finishing college. We don’t know what that’s like. Um but sounds fun. But they uh in his speech, he talked about like this is I’m obviously paraphrasing and I’m not doing it to disparage him, but because what he I thought what he said was already bad enough. But essentially he was just like, this is great and all, but like the best thing that you’re gonna do, and I know a lot of you are more excited about is being a mom, and that it would be the greatest thing you ever do. And I and I just thought it was gross, and because um I did one, he didn’t say it about the men. It wasn’t equally shared, and there were men graduating there too. Two, that’s not true of all the women in the room. Some of them won’t ever have kids, can can’t have kids. Like there’s just things that happen in people’s lives, and I think at an event where you can we’re celebrating something you did. We’re celebrating this right now of what you did. This is an accomplishment. Yes, you might be excited to be a mom. Maybe that will be the best thing that ever happens to you in your life. But right now, you graduated and you earned this, like you earned this accomplishment, we should celebrate that. And I just I took issue with that and I posted about it, and a lot of people came in there and they uh they got pretty mad and and I made sure to it took a long time, but I made sure to literally talk to everyone. Like people just came in our DMs and we had like, I mean, hundred hundreds, and I just went in and I talked to every single one. Uh just to be like, hey, I wasn’t doing this to dunk on him. I genuinely think it’s kind of gross to do this thing where it’s like it’s subliminally sexist to just say to these women, but you can’t wait to be a mom. And it’s like the dads are there too. And this is another reason why like dads maybe are less involved. We’re not expecting them to be involved. It’s just like this woman graduates college, but you can’t wait to be a mom. Dads, go do your thing. Go be the, go be the man, go have fun, do your guy adventures. And it’s like, if you’re gonna do it, if you had done it blanket, I’d have been like still kind of lame because they graduated college. But it that that that was what I took issue with. And I feel like those are the kind of things. So when I do stuff like that, which is very rare, yeah, people come at us, but we make sure to kind of be like, no, we’re not gonna back down from it or hide from it. Um, but it’s not essentially why we started our page, and there are people who at the end of the day are more well-versed in it, who are studying it, uh, that, you know, I’ll repost them, but you know, I’m I’m not gonna be another echo.

Evan Berger 1:08:47
Yeah, I was gonna say too. It’s like it’s also one thing to to have, you know, a conversation about it. It’s like make sure we get in. It’s like, okay, we want to talk about it, let’s talk about it, because this is why we don’t think we think this is like that’s a bit gross or weird. I certainly wouldn’t pretend to know about a subject, you know, and shout my huge opinion about it. And really, like Kevin said, I’m not an expert in it. So we stay into the comedy side of like the overwhelming feeling it that it is to be an a parent when it’s like you it’s like there, yeah, there’s books and there’s handbooks and everything, but not every not any one of them is the solve because you are your own family. And so it’s about taking from the village of information and like do what’s right for your family is where our stuff comes from, you know, that point of view. And then also it’s hard and we screw up and let’s make light of that. Not to take a stance on something we wouldn’t be able to like talk about because we don’t know anything about it, you know. So, like Kevin said, yeah, if we somebody speaks so eloquently about something that we think, like, oh yeah, this is maybe important and cool to share, we can we can share that rather than regurgitate it and then try to make it come off like we know what we’re talking about, which we don’t. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:09:55
Well, obviously, the way that you’re doing it is appealing to what 683,000 people. And so you’re doing something right.

Kevin Laferriere 1:10:06
Thank you. Yeah, we’re very grateful for it. We we get a lot of people that write in and and as Evan said, when we make a post, the ones that always get the best engagement are the ones that usually the most fresh things in our minds. But when people start sharing their stories, that’s like the best thing in the world. When they’re just like, oh, I just had something like this happen, or they email us or DM us a long story. It’s like that’s the best thing ever, because it’s like, oh, that’s so fun. And sometimes their story is like, oh my gosh, that did I even come close to having that happen to me. That’s insane. And that’s just like that, that’s like the kind of gift that gets that we get back. It’s awesome. We do we wrote created a community.

Evan Berger 1:10:39
Yeah, we wrote like a one-hour like live show and we did on a like a small little tour. We went to some venues. We were on like on the East Coast and the Midwest for a minute, and every time we did our show, the most I mean, it was awesome to travel together, to go somewhere we’d never been and to perform our show. But the best part of it by far was like people waiting after to talk to us, and like how many people would come in and be like, oh my gosh, my husband did it. Everyone couldn’t wait to share their stupid thing that they did. It was like every one of those conversations was like, Oh, this is amazing. This is like literally getting to talk to the comment section of the people that are like, me too, same, same thing, you know. And that’s that was the best. I mean, that’s just the best feeling.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:11:20
So, what’s your long-term goal for this? Like, what’s the long game here?

Kevin Laferriere 1:11:26
You know, we would love to uh do this as a show, a longer form. Um, we we were developing it uh to be a show for a while, um, but it was around like around COVID, so that didn’t work out. But yeah, it’s always just been the kind of fun of telling the story of dads through the comedic lens. Um, our idea with our sketches is the idea of like when things get so and so intense with parents, it kind of becomes this. And the flashbacks to what what parenting was. I think building a community of of dads that are the in are in as involved. Like they don’t have to be stay-at-home dads, but they they do have to know the doctor’s name. Like things like that. What size shoe your kid wears? I mean, like basic stuff. So I yeah, I think the long-term goal would be to definitely develop this into like a longer running show. Something written would be really fun, a sitcom of some kind. Um, but even if we branched it out into just some kind of like, you know, this example is like Nateland, Nate Borghetsi has like he’s got all these like branches coming off the tree of like, but it’s all in that genre. I mean, I think if we did something like along that lines, that would be something we’d be really excited to to move forward with.

Evan Berger 1:12:44
Yeah, I that’s we’ve we’ve talked about this like probably over the last year or so is like how do we continue to grow, but make it so this communal feeling that we have of like what we kind of stand for in terms of how what this parenting feels like to us, how do we make that, how do we grow that? So that’s kind of, I would say additionally like the long-term goals to grow that into something much bigger than it is. Um, and I think because of that, some more of those opportunities like we’ve tr we’ve tried before and are are on the cusp of sometimes, can grow along with it. But the overall sense of like the it’s okay to feel overwhelmed and make mistakes and then laugh at them and keep trying. And as long as you keep trying and you’re, you know, the the effort is there and you’re trying to get better all the time, then you get to have this experience growing up, you know, as a growing uh as a better parent, but also getting to be involved in your pick kids as they grow up and eventually, you know, you get it’s we we kind of make fun of the videos a lot of times where it’s like you never know when the last time they’re gonna ask you to pick them up and the stuff where you’re like, all right, I I know that. Yeah. You know, but but there’s a truth to it. It’s probably when I was already tired. Yeah, there’s a but there’s yeah, but there’s a truth to it. Um, in that like if if you don’t give your best shot now, then you then you never will have, you know, and so just try to stay in it as much as we can.

ADHD Questions And Parenting With Grace
Dr. Amy Moore 1:14:07
I love that. Um okay, so before we wrap up, is there anything that you want to ask us?

Kevin Laferriere 1:14:19
Um what is the most what is the most common question that you you get in your DMs? Like being the brainy moms, what is something that people just kind of regularly turn to you for?

Dr. Amy Moore 1:14:36
Yeah, the question I get most is how do I know if my child has ADHD or not?

Speaker 3 1:14:44
Okay.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:14:45
Um and so I actually I devote my entire career to helping parents troubleshoot and problem solve and go in the direction that they need to go. Um but Sandy and I both get questions about why can’t my child read? Why is my child melting down about their schoolwork?

Speaker 6 1:15:09
Right?

Dr. Amy Moore 1:15:10
Like, what am I missing as a parent? And so that’s the space that we work in, is helping to identify like where are the skill gaps that we need to fill in some way? Like and, you know, is that an emotional skill that’s missing? Is it a cognitive skill that’s missing? Is there a content gap in what you haven’t learned but need to know in order to move forward at this part in your education? And so those are the questions that we are, you know, most often answering. Um, is just to help parents who are stuck.

Kevin Laferriere 1:15:46
With that where where is where’s like the kind of like the line that we should all be as parents kind of aware of of like where we know we’re beating up on ourselves too much and where we probably maybe could be doing better. Because I feel like as parents, that is like something where we we don’t know. We don’t know if like if there even is a line. Because there is like a thing where people are like, you’re doing great, you know, you’ve you’re struggling, but then you’re also just like, yeah, but I this could be better. So like how do what’s a what’s a way for a parent to kind of navigate that?

Dr. Amy Moore 1:16:26
Yeah, I think that we uh we have to have this mindset of grace for ourselves and for our children. Um and that we have to get rid of the idea that there is such a thing as a perfect parent because that’s elusive and a goal that’s unattainable. And so uh we can’t let perfect get in the way of great. We can’t let great get in the way of good enough. Um and I think that the fact that you’re asking that question means that there is anything to worry about, right? Like that that you care enough to wonder, am I doing enough or am I doing too much? And nobody’s gonna know your child like you do.

Speaker 6 1:17:10
Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:17:10
And so if your child is struggling, then you put on a detective cap and say, What am I missing?

Speaker 6 1:17:18
Right.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:17:20
Again, is there something uh Dr. Ross Green says um kids do well when they can? And that means if they have the skills, the emotional skills, the cognitive skills, the you know, the the social skills, then you’re not going to see a struggle.

Speaker 6 1:17:37
Right.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:17:37
If you’re seeing a struggle, then you get to play detective and say, okay, is my child tired, hungry, sick, or stressed? And the first three are easy to determine.

Evan Berger 1:17:47
It’s so funny how often we forget about that. Those are the a lot of dumb dad moments rest in those moments of like not like, what the hell is the matter with him? And it’s like, we had lunch five hours ago.

Speaker 6 1:17:57
Yeah.

Evan Berger 1:17:58
It’s like it’s something so simple that you’re like, he’s not normally like this. You know, like it’s it’s 8 15 and we’re at the mall.

Speaker 6 1:18:06
Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 1:18:07
Right. And they’re four. Tired, hungry, super stressed.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:18:10
And stressed is the big one, right? Because there’s so many causes of stress. But my book comes out in July and I I talk about like, okay, meeting unmet needs because having an unmet need, whether it’s an emotional need, a need for restorative sleep, um, you know, a sensory processing need, like all of these having an unmet need causes stress. And so that’s our job as parents is to figure out what needs aren’t being met. Because all behavior is communicating that to us.

Sandy Zamalis 1:18:42
Yeah. And as parents, there’s so much information now, it’s almost information overload. So you know, if you think about it generationally, um, you know, when Amy and I were raising kids, there wasn’t the internet. Like we were winging it.

Evan Berger 1:18:57
And you pretty much had your parents as an example, and that’s your prime example.

Sandy Zamalis 1:19:02
Yeah.

Evan Berger 1:19:03
You know.

Sandy Zamalis 1:19:05
So, you know, that that grace piece is just really important. And yeah, trusting your instincts um as parents, because again, you know your child uh better than anybody else. So um it’s really hard because there’s so much information. It could be anything. Um, but if you can figure out some of the high pieces first, and then if there’s a bigger issue, that’ll come to you. You’ll figure that out along the way.

unknown 1:19:29
Yeah.

Kevin Laferriere 1:19:30
Oh, I love that. Thank you.

Where To Follow The Dumb Dads
Dr. Amy Moore 1:19:32
Yeah, for sure. All right. So, how can our listeners find more of you if they don’t already know you?

Kevin Laferriere 1:19:38
We are at the dumb dads on all social media. Uh you can follow our podcast, the dumb dad singular podcast. For the real dumb dads, it’s the dumb dad podcast. Don’t look up the dumb dad singular podcast. There’s some dads out there will search that. Follow along, dummies. It’s not that hard. Uh but yeah, we’re on all social media. Check us out. We uh do a podcast pretty much every week, uh every Tuesday. But yeah, the dumb dads.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:20:10
Fantastic. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you so much for having us.

Kevin Laferriere 1:20:16
This is a blast. Loved it.

Dr. Amy Moore 1:20:18
Yeah. All right, let’s close the show. All right, listeners, that’s all the time we have for today. Um, we are so happy that we got to spend time with Kevin and Evan, the dumb dads, who really aren’t so dumb. Um, we’re gonna put links to find them in our show notes so that you can get more from them. If you want more from us, you can find us at the Brainy Moms on social media, at theBrainymoms.com, where we have a free newsletter that you can sign up for. Don’t miss out. And you can find Sandy on TikTok at the Brain Trainer Lady. So, look, that is all the smart stuff that we have for you today. We’re gonna catch you next time.