Burnout Proof: Soul Care, Rest, & Boundaries for Busy Moms | Debra Fileta

About this Episode

Burnout rarely announces itself with a flashing warning sign. It sneaks in through good intentions, old “shoulds,” and the quiet belief that being needed equals being faithful. We sit down with licensed professional counselor and best-selling author Debra Fileta to talk about soul care, rest, boundaries, and what actually changes when we stop treating health like a luxury and start treating it like stewardship.

We dig into the real roots of burnout and why personality, family of origin, trauma history, and theology can all shape how we say yes and no. Debra shares one of the most freeing reframes for high achievers: Jesus honors his capacity. He withdraws for alone time, protects his time with the Father, and refuses to be driven by other people’s opinions. That example gives us permission to set boundaries, protect our calling, and choose rhythms that keep us filled rather than depleted.

You’ll also hear practical guidance for discerning God’s will through relationship and familiarity, plus a grounded take on “spiritual warfare” when the real issue might be low sleep, low blood sugar, or dehydration. From there, we zoom out to family life: keeping God at the center, strengthening marriage, navigating different parenting styles, and making decisions as a true team. Debra also introduces her new book People Skills and why ownership, empathy, and communication matter in a screen-shaped world.

Subscribe for more conversations on Christian parenting, mental health, and practical faith, then share this with a friend who’s running on empty and leave a review. What is one boundary you know you need to set this week?

About Debra Fileta

Debra Fileta is a Licensed Professional Counselor and bestselling author of eight books. She’s a national speaker who travels the country reaching millions of people with the message of mental, emotional, and relational healing. 

Her work has been featured by numerous media outlets, national television, syndicated radio, and ministries and churches nation-wide including Saddleback Church, Fresh Life Church, Lakewood Church, Focus on the Family, Better Together, The 700 Club, and many more. 

She’s also the founder of the Debra Fileta Counselors Network, a national team of faith-forward, clinically-informed counselors, integrating faith and psychology to help people navigate personal and relational issues. 

Debra is also the host of the popular podcast, and nationally syndicated radio show Talk To Me, where she hosts on-air counseling style sessions with people from across the country including notable pastors and leaders, as well as every-day hotline callers talking about the things many others shy away from. 

She is the author of eight books, including True Love Dates, Choosing Marriage, Love in Every Season, Are You Really OK?, Married Sex, RESET, Soul Care, and her first children’s book, Any Day Emotions.  

She and her husband, John, and their four children live in Lancaster, PA. You can connect with her on Instagram or at DebraFileta.com.

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Read the transcript for this episode:

NOTE: This transcript was auto-generated by an AI assistant that thinks it’s smarter than we are. It’s not, but it has more free time than we do, so we gave it a low-stakes job. It probably spelled a few things wrong, but we’re okay with that. We’d rather spend our time interviewing cool guests!

Welcome And Newsletter Reminder

Dr. Amy Moore 0:00

Hi, Smart Moms and Dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms Podcast. Before I introduce my guest today, I just want to remind everyone that we have a free monthly newsletter. You can go to theBrainymoms.com, sign up for that, and receive monthly tips and resources on all things parenting and topics related to what we talk about on the show. And now, my guest today is Deborah Fileta. Deborah is a licensed professional counselor and best-selling author of nine books. She’s a national speaker who’s traveled the country, reaching millions of people with a message of mental, emotional, and relational healing. Her work has been featured in numerous media outlets. She’s been on national television, syndicated radio, ministry in churches nationwide, including Saddleback Church, Focus on the Family, the 700 Club. She’s also the founder of the Deborah Fileda Counselors Network, a national team of faith-forward clinically informed counselors who integrate faith and psychology in their counseling to help people navigate personal and relational issues. She’s also the host of the Popular Podcast, a nationally syndicated radio show, Talk To Me, where she hosts on-air style counseling sessions with people from across the country about all things that many people will shy away from. She and her husband John and their four children live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Deborah is going to be here today to talk to us about the importance of rest and soul care and boundaries and burnout and what other, whatever other wisdom uh we have time to allow her to impart upon us during this important conversation. I’m so excited to welcome today’s guest, Deborah Fileta. I’m so excited to talk to you. It’s good to be here. I know it’s good to have you here. We’ve been doing this six years, and this is the first time I’ve ever been nervous about a guest because you’re my favorite author. I don’t think that you anyone could fangirl more than I’m fangirling right now about having you on the show.

Debra Fileta 2:09

So I’m glad to be here. And I think you read Soul Care recently as well. Multiple Oh, well, I read it the day it came out.

Dr. Amy Moore 2:20

And then again two days later. Wow. And right. So I have it on YouTube. You literally read the whole thing. Oh yeah.

Debra Fileta 2:28

The day it came out. Yes. You are a reader. I don’t think in my 42 years of life have I ever read a book in one day. Oh, you’re kidding. No, I’m serious. I just, I probably just need like little bite-sized chunks, and then I have to go do something, and then I come back, and then I have like five different books I’m reading. And then I, you know, I it’s a little bit more like that.

Dr. Amy Moore 2:56

Well, I do have five books that I’m always reading at one time, right? That I think, okay, I’m gonna sit down and finish it. And then I start another one. And then, but um, I had been just kind of anticipating yours from your social media, you know, posts about it. I was teetering on the edge of burnout as your book was being released, and I thought, oh, I need this book. Uh, read it and was sitting in a church staff meeting the next day. And I said, okay, everybody needs to get this book. You need to order it right now. And um, then I think I started saying, any woman in ministry of any kind needs to read this book. And so um And then it’s like any moments to read this book. How about any anyone with breath in their lungs needs to read this book? Um, yeah. And so, you know, I was I was teetering on burnout then. That was in September. And um, it wasn’t until June where I hit a wall, like hit a brick wall, couldn’t function. My therapist actually said to me that I was the most stubborn client she’d ever had. Like, which was pretty bold of her to say that. But I think you have to chew on that when your therapist is that brutally honest with you. Right. Um, right. And, you know, I’m an Enneagram 3 classic overachiever, just and I think, you know, she said something like, at what point will you know that you’ve achieved enough?

Speaker 3 4:27

Hmm.

Dr. Amy Moore 4:28

And and then how do you answer a question like that? Um so anyway, so hit hit burnout in June and um really just had to lean into some of the things that my therapist was saying that you had said in soul care that people I trust were speaking into me. Um so I just sort of cleared the deck and said if it’s not, if it’s not feeding my soul, if it’s soul sucking and not life giving, then it has to go.

Debra Fileta 5:02

Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 5:02

Um and wow, what a difference.

Debra Fileta 5:06

That’s amazing. I love to hear that. It’s funny because, you know, I just released a book two weeks ago or so, three weeks ago now, called People Skills. And I but as much as I think that book is really necessary and important, soul care was definitely for me. And I feel like I I almost see it objectively as as if I didn’t write it, because it felt like a download from the Holy Spirit. Sure. And I wrote it in 16 and a half days, and it was just like it was a miracle, and it was anointed, and I still feel deep emotions when I work through that book or talk about it or live it out. Um, so it was a gift from the Lord for the right season, you know, not knowing that a week after it released, we would walk through a really difficult season, some trauma and tragedy, and that I would need it more than I even realized. So it’s just it the the whole message is a gift, and it’s mo it’s mostly a gift because it’s the life of Jesus and how he is so balanced and so healthy and such a great example. So yeah, yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:24

Well, that just in my small circle, who I’ve been able to recommend your book to, I think it it’s been life-changing for multiple people. I’m so grateful.

Debra Fileta 6:38

Well, I’m glad to be here. And um your work is really exciting to me with having a child with special needs, and you know, just it’s it’ll be fun to get to know what you’re doing a little bit as well.

Dr. Amy Moore 6:54

I think the most exciting thing about having you here today is because I do have this, what I feel like is a deep personal connection to your work and your writing and how much it has impacted me and my walk, um, my interpretation of what it means to rest, what it means to set boundaries, what it means to say no, to protect your calling, um, to recognize that I’m not the only one that can do something, um, really to trust others, to trust that the Lord has called others in similar ways. And so just so many really wisdom-infused nuggets, which now I’m hearing you say were directly from the Holy Spirit, which is just absolutely amazing. And so I am expecting this next 45 minutes to be a total blessing to our listeners and our followers, um, just as you’ve been a blessing to me so far.

Why Burnout Happens Underneath

Debra Fileta 7:53

Wow, I’m so grateful. So welcome. Thank you. It’s so good to be here. I love talking about soul care and most importantly, living it out. So I’m just grateful.

Dr. Amy Moore 8:05

Yeah. So what do you think? Because it it did feel like a download, what do you think was the the biggest takeaway that you had from the book? Like how did it impact your life?

Debra Fileta 8:23

Yeah. You know, soul care starts with the reasons why we’re burned out, the reasons why we’re susceptible to it, because I think that’s an important place for us to start. And I’ll get to your question in a minute, but I just kind of want to set the framework, you know, going getting to the roots because, you know, as as you read soul care, it it starts with the roots, and then it goes into what to do now. So here’s the six rhythms that you can begin to practice just as Jesus did. It’s psychological, but also rooted in scripture. So they are like really meaningful rhythms. But if you don’t get to your why, your underlying belief systems of why you do what you do and where it came from, you’re gonna repeat the patterns eventually if you don’t change the roots. And I think that’s a really important thing for people to understand. And I would say my roots personally are achieving roots. Um, I grew up as a daughter of immigrants who came to America and had to start from scratch. And watching them work hard, somewhere in my little brain, I equated working hard to being what God has called you to do. You know, it was a it was ministry, it was hard work, it was, you know, or working harder than the people around you so that you could succeed in a country that wasn’t yours. And so from the inside, I’m watching this and I am interpreting it as overachieving and working hard as kind of the goal to being pleasing to God and pleasing to others. And so you have that underlying belief system that over the years the Lord has had to help me work through. So, with that in mind, that framework, the rhythm of savor, right was the most meaningful one for me. Because I’m a checklist girl, like what’s next? What do I need to achieve next, God? What’s on the radar? What do you want me to do for you? And savor is all about what’s now, what’s in front of you? What have I done for you, God says, that you can enjoy and just live in? And and how can you enjoy the pleasure that’s in front of you? I am all about purpose in life, but savor is all about pleasure and enjoying the God-given pleasures, slowing down to taste and see that the Lord is good. And I think that was and continues to be the most meaningful part of soul care for me.

Dr. Amy Moore 11:35

W what did it feel like that first aha moment when you stepped into that rhythm?

Debra Fileta 11:44

It’s been a layered journey for me. It was never a once and done moment, but it was the Lord prompting my heart to save her life in little moments but at a time. I think when I wrote Soul Care, I was finally able to conceptualize it as a necessary rhythm to care for my soul, a necessary rhythm to stay filled, a necessary rhythm that even Jesus practiced. I was able to conceptualize it in that way. But even looking back, I remember one year having a conversation with the Lord and just saying, What do you want me to do more of this year? You know, at this, it was probably the start of the year, because that’s usually when I’m like really contemplative and reflecting. And what do you want me to do more of God? And I just sat and listened and I remember so clearly, he said, I want you to have more fun. And that threw me off because that’s just not my nature. It’s not what I expected. It was like I expected a list of amazing things we could do for the kingdom and things that I could challenge myself in and areas where I could grow. So to feel in my spirit that the answer was have more fun was surprising. It was shocking, you know?

Speaker 3 13:01

Yeah.

Debra Fileta 13:01

And so little by little throughout my life, the Lord has kind of been shifting my heart and aligning how I live to his spirit, which is a huge part of soul care, being in alignment with him in how we live practically, not just spiritually, but practically as well.

Dr. Amy Moore 13:23

Did it take some time for you to think and pray about and and kind of wrestle with, well, what does having more fun look like in a God-honoring way? Or did you automatically feel this freedom to to step into that?

Debra Fileta 13:42

I think I automatically felt the freedom because I’m I’m one of those people that kind of stays in the lines. I don’t color outside the box. I was never rebellious. Um and so it was easy for me. And I and I really have a fun side. I I just sometimes I let it hibernate too much. Sometimes I choose serious over fun, you know, in in the nature of my personality, but there is fun in there, and I have found when I lean into it, I love it. So it was almost just permission. Like, hey, there’s this side of you that you are allowed to release and lean into, and it’s okay if it feels like you’re not quote unquote accomplishing something or it doesn’t feel efficient. Like that’s not the point of life, you know. Just enjoy me and enjoy what I’ve given you. And I I think I’m able to do that pretty well when I’m thinking about it, when I’m prioritizing it, and when I see it as something that is of utmost importance. It’s not just like a waste of time to have fun. It’s a way to enjoy life and stay healthy and stay filled so that I can do everything that God has called me to do.

Dr. Amy Moore 15:02

Sure. And do you think that um that message would look different from the Lord to different people based on what how they can conceptualize what fun would look like. For example, right, you said that you always colored in the lines. So he didn’t have to qualify his definition of fun to you, whereas he would have to qualify it to me, right? Because I have a past of having a little bit too much fun outside of the lines, right? In my younger days. And so he would probably have to say, but not too much. And so, but in terms of, I would think that, you know, you look at these six rhythms, they’re not going to be equal pieces of pie for every everyone, right?

Debra Fileta 15:50

Exactly. Exactly. And they can’t be because we’re so unique and different and we have different needs in the present. We have different experiences from the past, things that we have to work through. But when people ask me, where do I begin with soul care? I often say start where you’re the weakest. Out of these six rhythms, there is gonna be one that resonates with your heart in the sense of, yeah, I struggle with this one. Maybe it’s the rhythm of protect and you’re not good at setting boundaries and protecting your calling and saying no and not yet, and you know, concentrating on what God has called you to do and and what’s in front of you. Maybe for you it’s rest. You go, go, go, you don’t get much sleep, you don’t have much margin in your life. Maybe it’s connect. Uh, you look around and you’re isolated versus connected in intimate relationships. And maybe that’s the area where God says, Yeah, you gotta, we gotta work on that so that you can be filled. You know, it’s not another checklist to just accomplish. And it’s funny because if you see it as a checklist, you can burn out trying not to be burnt out, you know, trying to check all these things in the right ways and make sure I’m drinking my water and having time with friends. And, you know, but that’s not the goal. The goal is so that we can be filled in healthy ways. So it is gonna look completely different for each person, but at least we make the practicals really realistic and achievable. As you read through the book, it’s like, okay, here are here’s where I can begin with this particular rhythm.

Dr. Amy Moore 17:29

Yeah, absolutely. I think the one that spoke to me the most was this idea of protecting your calling. And you said, you know, every time you say yes to what someone asks you to do, you’re saying no to what the Lord has called you into. And that was kind of this moment of conviction for me, because I think, and I and you address this, and I think most Christian women can have a sense of this idea that, well, saying no doesn’t feel like the Christian thing to do, right? Like we we kind of come into this space of thinking, well, of course we have to say yes because we have to have this, you know, heart for service, and we have to help people when they need it. And, you know, then to sit with that and and come to that realization that nowhere does the Lord say, yes, help others, but to the detriment of your own health. Exactly.

Debra Fileta 18:26

We almost try to fight off self-absorption by overcompensating with self-neglect. But the irony in that is that when you self-neglect and you feel empty and miserable and you break down, you are in such a bad place that real, really all you can think about is yourself. You’re so self-absorbed when you are not feeling well, when you’re depressed, when you’re anxious, when you have nothing left. All you think about is how bad you’re feeling. And you’re so it’s like a vortex. And so the irony in trying to self-neglect is we get to a point where we’re actually really self-absorbed because we’re feeling so terrible. And God doesn’t call us to self-neglect, he calls us to honor others in the way that we honor ourselves, to care for others in the way that we care for ourselves, to love others in the way that we love ourselves. There’s a balance, there’s an equilibrium to that. And one thing I found is that the reason we get this wrong is number one, theologically, like we’re discussing now, we we read into scripture or we’re taught scripture in ways that aren’t accurate or healthy or the way that they were intended to be delivered to us. But number two, our family of origin, we often repeat patterns and the things that served us in one season sabotage us in another season. And as I was um in the process of releasing Soul Care, I did a podcast series called the Soul Care Series, where I invited uh different people uh to call into the hotline who were struggling with burnout. And they would call in and we would talk about why and what was going on and where they were at. And as I was looking through the applications and listening to some of the videos that people had sent in, I noticed three different personality types of people who really struggle the most with soul care. The first are the firstborns, the good kids, the really responsible ones who uh fill in the gaps for everyone, you know, they they they become all things to all people because they want to help and support, and and like I said, over-responsible. They get so good at anticipating others’ needs that they forget their own needs. And and we often say in counseling behind every people pleaser was once a parent pleaser. So think about that that childhood where it’s like, oh, sure, what do you need me to do? How can I help? And and when you live like that, you are more susceptible to neglecting your needs because you’re really good at honoring the people in front of you, but not necessarily at honoring yourself. The second group were people who came from a home where someone in the family had higher needs than them. So maybe it was a sibling who was really rebellious. Maybe it was a sibling who had a disability or an addiction or something of the sort. Maybe there was um conflict with the grandparents or something that caused the the you as a child to feel that somebody else had higher needs than you. There’s there’s a lot more going on here. So I’m just gonna keep things. Balanced. I don’t want to rock this boat any more than it’s already rocking. So I’m just going to keep my needs to myself. I’m going to just stay as quiet as possible and not have any needs. You become susceptible to then living a life where ignoring your needs is part of your MO. It’s part of how you live. The third group are people who come from a home where either mom or dad was emotionally unavailable. So maybe they have these needs as a kid and they bring them to dad, but dad’s an alcoholic, workaholic, ministry aholic, and he’s not available. So I bring my needs to mom, but she’s stressed out, maxed out, frazzled, and she doesn’t have the capacity. So then I just put my needs on the back burner. And think about that. Some of us could probably check off all three boxes. Think of how susceptible that makes us. Then you pair that with poor theology, and it is a setup for future burnout. Absolutely.

Dr. Amy Moore 23:04

So how did you choose? Did you did you take several from each of those categories and address them?

Debra Fileta 23:12

When you chose the people that to call in? We honestly, it was interesting because those were the patterns that kept emerging. Those three things kept emerging in all of these different people. Um again, a high amount of firstborns, a high amount of people who came from a family where it’s like, oh wait. So so these patterns help us. Um, and I ended up just choosing a few people that I thought would be a great fit for the conversation. Different, different types of people, people from all different walks of life, men, women, black, white, Asian, Hispanic. I mean, it was like a young, old. It it was incredible to see how it didn’t matter the age or stage, the ethnic background, the gender. There was people struggling with these things in all walks of life. So it was a it’s a really fun series just to tune into and listen to the differences and the similarities. And um, but ultimately the reason why. Like, why did you get here? How did you get here? And that’s the I think the most important part to unpack.

Burnout Hotline Patterns And Root Causes

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Dr. Amy Moore 24:19

Yeah. Well, I’m excited. I actually did not hear that series. So I’ll have to do that. You’ll love it. And yeah, fantastic.

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Dr. Amy Moore 26:15

Okay, so I want to talk a little bit sort of about the idea of um how Jesus is this amazing example of what setting boundaries can look like and what saying no can look like. Because I think we kind of erroneously think of Jesus as being completely selfless and giving everything and and not um having um not taking time for himself or not, you know, worrying about his own physical needs. Because when you think of him, um, you think of him as being God, but he is also fully human at the same time. And and humans have limitations physically and emotionally and spiritually, right? And so talk a little bit about what that looked like and how we can um follow that example. Like how does that benefit us too?

Debra Fileta 27:11

We think of Jesus as a yes man, right? That he said yes to everything and did everything that people wanted. But as you read through soul care and as you look at scripture through the lens of soul care, you see that Jesus was really good at honoring his capacity. He was fully God, yet fully man. And so he had a human capacity that he chose to honor and was really good at finding the balance. And Jesus knew that he was called to big things, right? He was called to great things, and high levels of pouring out require high levels of filling. And and so he was so intentional about making sure to fill up in big ways, which is one of the reasons why he set the boundary of alone time. Jesus often withdrew to lonely places, scripture tells us often. And when you look at scripture, it’s almost funny how many times the disciples didn’t know where he was. Like he didn’t ask permission. He just went and Where’d Jesus go? Where did he go? Spent time with the Father. Like he knew he needed to be filled in big ways if he was going to pour out in big ways. It wasn’t a question, it wasn’t a luxury, it was a necessity to be filled with the Father, to protect his time with God, to protect his calling and all that God had entrusted him with. And he took it so seriously. And the reason he wasn’t a people pleaser, I actually there’s a verse in scripture that says Jesus was not interested in the opinions of man. Like he didn’t care about the opinions of man. And I don’t think that means that he didn’t care about people. He just didn’t care about their opinion of him, right? They they didn’t, the Pharisees came to him because they’re like, oh, we know you’re not interested and you don’t care about the opinions of people. So what do you think of this topic? And the reason he was able to be removed from the opinion of man is because he was so aligned to the opinion of God. He was so aligned to the calling of God that obligation from people didn’t move him because he was fixed on his calling and so in tune with the spirit. I I really believe the more in tune we are with the Holy Spirit, the easier it will be for us to say yes, and the easier it will be for us to say no. That is not aligned to the calling that God has on my life, and not feel afraid that people are gonna be offended or that they’re not gonna like us or that they’re gonna think less of us or all the things that motivate us to do things that we probably shouldn’t do. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should, doesn’t mean it’s what God has called you to. And Jesus was so good at boundaries. Uh not only did he withdraw often, but he said no often. He said, Not yet often. My time has not yet come. No, I’m not gonna go to this next town, even though you’re telling me everyone expects me to go back. No, I’m not doing that. We’re going here next, you know. And I just love that he wasn’t driven by obligation. He was driven by calling. And I just wonder how that would change our lives if every single day in big decisions and small ones, we practiced being aligned with the spirit in our yeses and our no’s, and how much healthier even that rhythm alone would make our lives.

Dr. Amy Moore 30:55

Yeah. So let’s let’s sit in that space for a minute. Uh, you know, I frequently talk to people who ask the question, how do I know what God’s will for me is? How do I know what my calling is? Because if if we are going to um walk in that direction, we have to know what direction that is, right? And so what is your advice for someone who is still struggling to know?

Debra Fileta 31:23

When I first started dating my husband, I didn’t know him that well. I remember we would go to a restaurant and um he would go to the bathroom, go wash his hands, and the waitress would come and say, Oh, can I get your drinks or can I get you an appetizer or take your order? And I would say, um, you’re gonna have to wait because I’m not exactly sure what he’s gonna want. And fast forward, we’ve been married over 18 years, and I know him so well at this point that if he was gone, uh, you know, while the when the waitress came, I could tell you exactly what he wants, what he wants on this side. Please leave the onions off, a side of this, a side of that, you know, like the details. I know him so well. And to me, that is what relationship with God looks like and feels like when we’ve spent enough time in each other’s presence and I’ve learned him enough through his word, and I hear his voice. My sheep know my voice, he says, because I’ve invested in that relationship and that time, that quality time, I get much better at hearing his voice and knowing what he wants. God’s will, simply put, is what he wants for my life, what’s best for my life. And it’s just so much easier the more I know him for me to be much more clear with what he wants and even in the details sometimes that maybe years ago I wouldn’t have known. And I think the beauty of our relationship with Jesus is that just like with marriage, the intimacy increases with time, the knowledge increases with time, the revelation increases with time and investment. So, you know, if you’re if you’re practicing five minutes a day with Jesus, I don’t know that I would expect to know him that well, versus if you’re really investing in your walk with the Lord and and interacting with him throughout the day and praying without ceasing and and and really building intimacy with Jesus and with the Holy Spirit. It it starts to change what you hear, what you feel, what you know, what you see in Scripture. But it takes an investment on our part too. Sure.

When Helpful Yeses Become Self Sabotage

Dr. Amy Moore 33:51

So it used to be easy for me to answer um the question, like, how do I know that that’s God’s voice and not the enemy’s voice? And so I would always respond with something like um, the enemy is not going to ask you to do something that honors the Lord, and vice versa. The Lord is not going to ask you to do something that does not honor the Lord. But when we think about the nuances there, especially in through this lens of soul care, through this lens of um not saying yes to everything, is there a scenario where the enemy could disguise this message? Of course you need to help these people. Of course you should be doing this, so that people think they’re hearing the Holy Spirit when really they aren’t. Is there a scenario where that where that could happen? Where the enemy wants you to be exhausted and empty?

Debra Fileta 34:53

You know, I always say that some of that stuff we do on our own. Uh sometimes I feel like we give the enemy too much power and credit. I don’t think he’s that brilliant. I think that some of it we do to ourselves. We neglect our bodies all day long. We haven’t had a sip of water all day. We we haven’t eaten, we’re hangry, our blood sugar is low, we’re irritable. We get to the end of the day and we’re like, this must be spiritual warfare. But it’s actually just self-sabotage. And maybe it’s not a demon. Maybe it’s just dehydration and you just need a sip of water. You know, you need to hydrate. And I think we do the same with boundaries, the things that you just mentioned. I think oftentimes it’s our the voices that come from our family of origin and our past of like, oh, you should do this, you should do that. Maybe I heard shoulds, woulds, coulds a lot in my childhood. And so those voices stick in my mind. And could the enemy use my weaknesses? Absolutely. I just don’t give him that much power in to be in my mind, but I do think that he can use our weakness, he can use our trauma history to make us think things that aren’t aligned with what God wants for us. Um, and and I think the voice of God will always take us to better places, will always lift us higher. The voice of the enemy will always take us to worse places, will always take us lower. And to me, burnout is a worse place. So it’s very easy to say, okay, that’s gonna actually rob me of energy, rob me of joy. And so it’s going to take me to worse places if I’m burnt out, if I’m not in a healthy space. But yeah, I mean, the where where this matters is again, going back to us being aligned with God so that we can clearly see what the next step might look like for each of us.

Dr. Amy Moore 37:07

Yeah, I love that uh sub chapter uh in Soul Care where you say it’s not a demon, uh, you just haven’t had enough water today. Because we do have this tendency to cry spiritual warfare anytime something doesn’t seem like it is of the Lord. And so I think, sure, there’s a place for that. But what I’m hearing you say is a lot of times it can be our own unresolved messages and experiences.

Debra Fileta 37:37

Um Exactly. And that’s where the first five chapters of soul care really matter because they help you get to the roots. They help you see how trauma may have influenced the template of how you live your life, those underlying voices and beliefs that are rooted in something, they just not might not be rooted in God’s truth. They might be rooted in your past trauma history, the places where you felt like you had to fix it, you had to fill in the gaps. It was your job, it was your role. And you carry some of those things into adulthood if you don’t face them and heal them and deal with them. And so, so really, there’s a portion of this for us to make sure we’re living aligned to truth and not aligned to trauma.

Dr. Amy Moore 38:26

Okay, so I want to talk about um your thoughts on is the marriage the center of the family, or are your children the center of the family?

Debra Fileta 38:40

I would say God is the center of my family and my heart personally. I would start with that. I know that sounds so spiritual, but truth, truthfully, my first thought is Jesus is the center of my life. He’s everything. And then my husband comes next. He is my partner, he is my teammate, he I am one with him. Um, I’m one in Christ, and then I’m one with my husband. And then our children are an incredible offshoot of our oneness. They’re a gift to us, they’re part of our family, they’re part of our team, but we are the coaches, and um, we are co-coaches in our family, and and so that’s kind of how I see it and how I’ve found it to be the most productive. You know, if if life is like a triangle and I’m on one corner of the triangle and my husband’s in the other corner, the closer each of us get to the Lord, the closer we get to each other ultimately, because we’re moving towards the top of that triangle on our own journey with God. And so, you know, functioning that way and then kind of teaching our kids to function that way is the desire of my heart. Do we always get it right? No, nobody does. But when we’re in a healthy rhythm, it it affects everything in a positive way.

Dr. Amy Moore 40:11

What do you see is the cause of most conflict when uh raising young children?

Debra Fileta 40:21

Conflict in marriage or conflict with the kids? With in the marriage. I would say for sure, different parenting styles. Uh, you know, each of us come at it with a different personality, and that can cause tension between moms and dads for sure. Like you should do it this way, no, you should do it this way, you should be more gentle, you should be less gentle, you should be more firm. Um, you know, in almost almost two decades of being together and having different personalities in some ways, different parenting styles, I have learned that we have this beautiful opportunity to influence each other, but not change each other, you know? And I have totally influenced my husband in his parenting style, and he’s influenced me in my parenting style. But at the end of the day, there’s things about the way that he parents that wouldn’t work for me as a parent, but they work for him and they work for the kids, you know? And so I’ve learned to appreciate the parts of his parenting that I wouldn’t do, couldn’t do, aren’t my style, but work for him. And he’s learned to appreciate the things that I do in parenting that he wouldn’t do, couldn’t do, aren’t his style, but work because our kids are different and they have different needs and different ways that they learn. Like sometimes my husband will give an example of something, and I’m thinking, that does not work for me. But one of my boys is like, oh, that makes so much sense. And I’m like, okay, you know, there you go. And that to me is the beauty of our differences. They can be such an asset to us in our relationship when we learn to influence each other first and then appreciate each other’s differences.

Dr. Amy Moore 42:12

What do you say to families who um are firmly entrenched in the idea that um the man should have the final say in all things? And um, they’re wrestling with those differences in parenting styles or parenting decisions. Yeah. Because I work with a lot of families where this comes up.

Humor And Real Life Home Decisions

Debra Fileta 42:38

Sure. Sure. Honestly, to me, this is a theological journey as well as a personal one. Um, I don’t think there’s a right answer, but I think each person has to find their right answer and what works for them and their personality and their family. It really, it’s it’s a question of egalitarian versus complementarian. And I know incredible people in both worlds. And so I think what it comes down to either way, no matter what we believe, is knowing that scripture calls us to submit to one another. Scripture calls us to honor one another and respect one another. So no matter which side of the spectrum you fall on, if you follow those three things that are laid out in scripture, you’re gonna be fine. It’s just your dynamic of your home is gonna look a little different than the dynamic of someone else’s home or of my home. Um, but I do think it’s an important concept to be on the same page with your spouse and not just, oh, we just believe this overarching theme, but how does that actually play out in our marriage? Like, how does this actually play out? Let’s map this out, let’s talk through it. Um, you know, in my home, my husband and I are. A team, we’re equal partners, we we submit to one another, we are the co-pilots, and Jesus is the pilot of this plane. And ultimately, when it comes down to a final decision, if we if we disagree, which we rarely do, but if we do, we do two things. The first thing is we bring it before the Holy Spirit. And I learned this from a mentor couple of mine that I just love so much. And they said, inquire of the Lord. That’s what they used to say. Inquire of the Lord. And and say, Okay, Lord, here’s what we’re thinking. In each of you, ask God separately to give you an answer, uh, a red light, a green light, or a yellow light. And red means no, yellow means we’re gonna think about it, pray about it, we’re not sure. And green is like, yep, we have the green light to move forward with this decision. And and wait till you both get greens. Wait till you both get greens. Keep seeking the Lord. If we get to a place where there’s a yellow and we’re not sure, or one of us has a yellow, the other one has a yellow, we’re not totally sure. Typically in our home, we default to the person who has the most expertise and experience in that subject. So in my household, if it’s a parenting issue, John’s like, you take that, you’re the counselor. If it’s a finance issue, I’m like, you make the final call there because that is your world, that’s how your brain works. You know, if it’s an issue with our meal planning or, you know, there’s certain things that are like my space in the home, and then certain places that he just does really well in our the way his brain works. So we kind of just default to the person who has the most experience. And it has worked out so well for us. I don’t think there’s been a a time where we’ve really struggled with this. But I could see, you know, if you’re totally different in your personalities, you’re not used to having these conversations, you’re not used to inquiring of the Lord, you’re not used to sitting down and talking through this. If this stuff feels impossible for you, there’s a good chance you probably could use some marriage counseling. Good advice.

Dr. Amy Moore 46:10

Yeah, our family is uh nearly the same way. Um, we we defer to the person with the most expertise in that area, very similar to uh your split in expertise too. Um, or we defer to whoever feels more strongly about it. Yeah. Because there are some things where even if I feel if even if I have a different opinion, if if I might not care enough, that’s not a hill I’m gonna die on. Exactly. So you know, and we’ve been together 30 years, and it’s I was telling someone the other day, I can only think of three fights in 30 years. And they said, Well, what were they about? And I could only remember the topic of one of those fights. Right. And I’m not saying we didn’t disagree about things. You just the ones that are memorable. Yeah, absolutely. Or that, you know, we easily were able to, you know, resolve whatever difference that was. Um Yeah.

Debra Fileta 47:13

Speaking of wall color, you’re gonna laugh at this. We recently redid some parts of our house, and I painted like six different walls soul care green. I just love the color, the that like olive color. And that was one of my husband saying, I don’t have a huge opinion about it, but if you want to go with painting the house, the exact color of the book, go for it.

Dr. Amy Moore 47:41

Well, I always get so frustrated because my husband’s opinions about interior design are way too strong. Oh, that’s so funny. Right. And so it takes us 10 times longer than it should to make a decision about anything decor related in our home because I have to deal with his opinion as well.

Debra Fileta 48:04

You should each just have your own room to to decor.

Dr. Amy Moore 48:08

Right. Right. Well, and I’ll come up with these ideas and um he’ll defer to me ultimately.

Debra Fileta 48:16

Yeah.

unknown 48:20

Right.

Dr. Amy Moore 48:21

And then he’ll inevitably say, Oh, yeah, that really was a good idea. That really does look good. And so I’ve gotten to the point of just saying, Hey, what do you always say after we do it my way?

Debra Fileta 48:34

That’s hilarious.

People Skills And Relationship Ownership

Dr. Amy Moore 48:35

It must be your area of expertise. Um, the funny thing is I don’t have any, I don’t, I don’t, I have terrible spatial sense. So I know what I like and I know um what what colors I want and what style I want, but I can’t arrange anything. Um, because I I can’t, I have no proprioception. I can’t, so he has to arrange it. Um, but I like to choose what it is that he gets to arrange. That sounds like a great in-between. Exactly. I think so too. Um, okay, so you have a brand new book. Tell us a little bit about that.

Debra Fileta 49:13

Um Yeah, I just released a book um three weeks ago called People Skills. The subtitle is Your Relationships Are Only As Strong as Your Skills. And it’s a a book uh with 31 different interpersonal skills that we are not taught in the church. We are not taught on social media. When we think about people skills, we think, oh, I can have a conversation or I’m extroverted, but that is just such a small fraction of what it means to actually be effective with people and to be able to convey God’s love in a pure way without all our junk getting in the way. So it goes into a lot of depth with 31 different skills, um, such as vulnerability, body language, empathy, forgiveness, dealing with our triggers, um, the different communication styles, how things from the past have affected the way that we interact, shyness, social anxiety, is it actually how you’re born, or is it a is it something that you’ve learned over the years? And then how do you begin to undo that? And so all these different skills and topics and studies and it and and it it’s faith forward. So it’s also um just combining some of the beautiful truths that we learn in scripture about how to have healthy interpersonal relationships. And so it’s a it’s it’s been a really fun book to see go out into the world and just to watch people respond to it.

Dr. Amy Moore 50:50

Um, yeah, you say that when you were sharing about this book, so many people responded, oh, I know somebody who would need that book. And you were kind of surprised that people didn’t automatically say, Oh, I really need that book.

Debra Fileta 51:04

Exactly. If with Soul Care, for example, when I would tell people, oh, this is what I’m writing about, or this is what I just released, it was an automatic, oh, I could use that book. I’m burnt out, I’m spread too thin, I’m doing too much because that felt like a badge of honor, you know, like burnout. It feels like, oh, I’m doing too much. Whereas with people’s skills, it’s like it’s so easy for us to see other people’s deficits than it is to see our own. And but really uh we have to take ownership of how we show up in relationships. We have to take ownership of our portion of the equation of any given relationship. And when we do that, we have so much influence in how the relationship plays out. So I I just think it’s really a book about ownership, owning your role and how you show up in relationships and and shifting and transforming and adjusting so that you can be the most effective in communicating what’s in your heart to the people near and far, to your closest friends and family, but also to a lost and desperate world. Um, because that’s what we’re called to do right now, is to convey that love to a lost and desperate world. But unfortunately, sometimes our our junk gets in the way.

Dr. Amy Moore 52:31

Yeah. Uh a lot of times Christians give Christianity a bad name simply because uh of the ineffective communication uh that’s especially online.

Debra Fileta 52:41

Like social media has just totally convoluted healthy people skills. You don’t even practice healthy people skills online. You don’t even need healthy people skills because we’ve got our screens. It’s like I don’t even have to go to the grocery store and interact with somebody. I can just click a couple buttons and the groceries come to my door, and I don’t even have the opportunity to sharpen my people skills with real people. I’m behind a screen, I have no impulse control, I say whatever comes to my mind. And these are the things that we’re learning. These are this is our training ground in this day and age, which is really sad and a little bit scary.

Dr. Amy Moore 53:22

Yeah. Well, I just bought it and I can’t wait to uh dig into it. Oh, I’m so excited.

Debra Fileta 53:29

I wonder if you’ll read this one in 24 hours.

Dr. Amy Moore 53:32

Um I don’t know. I have a publishing deadline, and so um I’m shy on free time for the next two weeks. I believe it. But after that, um, absolutely. And you know, I have a neurodivergent brain and I struggle with, you know, reading social cues effectively, and I put my foot in my mouth all the time. And so I think um it’ll um it’ll be helpful for me for sure.

Where To Find Deborah And Closing

Debra Fileta 53:54

It’s interesting you say that because I dedicated this book to my son, who is neurodivergent as well. And I I actually, you know, this is a book for everybody. It’s a book for leaders, it’s a book for pastors, it’s a book for the everyday person. But I think it will be especially helpful for those who struggle with any of the neurodivergent with ADHD traits, um, social skill, social awkwardness, social anxiety, um, this anything on the spectrum. Like, you know, you think about even young adults these days. I I think it can be especially helpful to that subgroup who these normal interactions take a lot more effort and energy for. So I’m I’m really excited to get your feedback actually when you dig into it.

Dr. Amy Moore 54:47

Yeah, I’m excited to read it for sure. So, uh, Deborah, how could our listeners find more from you?

Debra Fileta 54:55

The easiest way is through the website or through Instagram, uh, Deborah Fileta.com, F-I-L-E-T-A is my last name. And the website has uh links to our counselors network. If you want to go deeper with one of the counselors on our team, it has links to all my books, the podcast courses, all the things. And then I’m at Deborah Fileda on Instagram and I love um interacting there through the comments or DMs. So reach out to me. I’ll be happy to hear from you.

Dr. Amy Moore 55:27

All right. Well, fantastic. This has been such a fun interview with my favorite author. Um, I know that our listeners are gonna have um immediate takeaways from all of these um nuggets of wisdom that you were able to share in just 45 minutes with us. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy clinical day. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Listeners, what a fun show. I was so excited that I got to interview my favorite author and America’s favorite counselor, Deborah Faleda. Um, thank you so much for sharing this hour with us. I love it that you choose to spend this time with us every week. Um, we hope you feel a little bit smarter after doing that. If you want more from us, you can find us on social media at the Brainy Moms. You can go to our website at theBrainyMoms.com, where you can sign up for our free monthly newsletter. Even though Sandy wasn’t with us today because she’s so sick, you can find her on TikTok at The Brain TrainerLady, where she shares fun things about cognitive training and cognitive assessment and all things cognition and learning. That’s all the smart stuff that we have for you this week. We’re gonna catch you next time. See ya.