How College Shapes (or Misshapes) Teen Faith | Dr. Renton Rathbun
About this Episode
Ever wonder how the college your teen is considering will continue to shape their faith? Or if questioning their faith is a natural part of going to college? Deconstruction is not just “asking questions.” Sometimes it’s what happens when we judge biblical faith with a measuring stick that never came from the Bible in the first place. That single shift can quietly move a teen from honest curiosity to a full-blown crisis of confidence, especially once they hit the college years and are surrounded by new definitions of truth, love, identity, and belonging.
On this episode of The Brainy Moms Podcast, Dr. Amy and Sandy talk and laugh with returning guest Dr. Renton Rathbun, pastor, longtime college professor, and host of The Renton Rathbun Show, to break down the difference between examining your faith and deconstruction through the lens of logic, worldview, and critical thinking. He explains how the campus challenge usually is not open hostility, but a calmer strategy: build trust, introduce a “neutral” standard, then use that standard to imply the Bible cannot be taken seriously. We talk about why that lands so effectively, why kids often cannot explain the doubt to parents, and how cultural incentives reward outrage over clarity.
Then we get practical for Christian parenting. We discuss teaching teens to analyze ideas (Bloom’s taxonomy), ask “who says?” when claims feel self-evident, and defend Christianity without becoming harsh or performative. We also share concrete college guidance: do not assume a Christian college equals Christian formation, assess maturity honestly, and help your teen treat the local church as home while college is a tool.
Production note: We had to edit this episode down because we spent so much time chatting and laughing in between serious topics. If the transitions are a little abrupt at times, that’s why…it happens when friends try to catch up AND record a show at the same time. We appreciate the grace!
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About Dr. Renton Rathbun
Renton is the host of the hit podcast, “The Renton Rathbun Show: A Podcast for Parents.” Renton has been a college professor for over 25 years. He holds a BS in English education, an MA in speech, an MFA in creative writing, an MA in philosophy, a ThM in theology, and a has a PhD in Historical and Theological Studies. Find him at www.rentonrathbun.com and on social media @TheRentonRathbunShow
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Read the transcript for this episode:
NOTE: This transcript was auto-generated by an AI assistant that thinks it’s smarter than we are. It’s not, but it has more free time than we do, so we gave it a low-stakes job. It probably spelled a few things wrong, but we’re okay with that. We’d rather spend our time interviewing cool guests!
Welcome And Newsletter Reminder
Dr. Amy Moore 0:01
Hi, smart moms and dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms Podcast brought to you today by Learning RX Brain Training Centers. I’m Dr. Amy Moore here with my co-host Sandy Zamalis. And before we introduce our guests today, we just want to remind you that we have a free monthly newsletter full of great tips of all of the cool topics that we talk about on the show and maybe some others. So just go to the BrainyMoms.com, sign up totally free. Don’t miss out. And now, our conversation today is with one of our favorite returning guests, Dr. Renton Rathbun. Let me tell you a little bit about him in case you don’t know him yet. Renton has been a college professor for over 25 years. He holds a bachelor’s degree in English education, four master’s degrees in speech, creative writing, philosophy, and theology, as well as a PhD in historical and theological studies. He’s the host of the hit podcast The Written Rathbun Show, a podcast for parents, unscripted, unedited, and raw. The Renton Rathbun Show uses guest experts, a bit of sarcasm, and some laughs to tackle malicious worldviews embedded in our society. We are so excited to welcome Dr. Written Rathbun back to our show for a conversation about how college can shape our teens’ faith, their thinking. Won’t you join us? Hello, sir. Oh, I cannot wait.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:25
Hey, how are you guys doing?
Sandy Zamalis 1:27
Good. Good to see you. Renton, have you recovered from all your travels this summer?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:33
Oh, it has been so crazy. It has been so crazy. So it’s a good thing. Saw your name tonight. Yeah.
Sandy Zamalis 1:40
Well, you had all the homeschool conferences and uh a bunch of other appearances.
Dr. Amy Moore 1:46
It was so good to see you, to run into you in the hallway in Virginia like that. I’m like, hey, that’s Renton Rathbun. Isn’t that cool? That was great. That was super.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:55
Yeah, that encouraged me too.
Dr. Amy Moore 1:57
Yeah, so I have a couple things I want to say.
Mugs Coffee And Culture Jokes
Dr. Amy Moore 2:00
One, I want you to admire my mug.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 2:02
I was actually gonna comment that hers is bigger than yours. You need a bigger logo.
Dr. Amy Moore 2:09
So my mug was inspired by your mug.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 2:13
Oh, that’s great to hear. Yeah, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta push it on everywhere you go. You gotta say, hey everybody.
Dr. Amy Moore 2:20
Like uh we were laughing at how you were very slow and methodical in holding up your mug.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 2:27
Um and I noticed how she did that the first time she took a drink, real slow.
Dr. Amy Moore 2:32
Right. And so I said to Sandy, I’m buying us mugs. Buying a mug. And so I I went and bought us mugs. Okay. So I wanted you to wanted to do that. And then the other thing I wanted to admire about you is how you were gently nudging Black Rifle Coffee to um sponsor your podcast.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 2:52
Yes.
Dr. Amy Moore 2:53
And I’m like, can you do that? Like, could because coffee is my love language. Yeah. Right? People just anticipate my coffee needs, right? And it’s written into my contracts. Yeah.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 3:07
Speaking of that’s very smart.
Sandy Zamalis 3:09
Sometimes is the best coffee, in my opinion, just so from Black Rifle.
Dr. Amy Moore 3:14
So, like, how do we get coffee sponsorship? Have you been successful?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 3:21
I haven’t yet, but I have found um I do know someone whose son works for Black Rifle up in the, you know, the upper echelon. And I don’t even want them to give us much. I mean, even if they just give us a, you know, a bag of coffee once a year, to be able to say that Black Rifle Coffee sponsored us. Yeah. I mean, I would I would even stretch it to say maybe they’re just the sole sponsor of the Rent and Rathman show. And just let people just, you know. I mean, I think that would do more for us than than anybody. So so I am pushing. I am still pushing them to do the work.
Dr. Amy Moore 4:00
Well, now I don’t need to be sponsored by Black Rifle Coffee. I just think any coffee company could sponsor me.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 4:09
Well, who are you drinking today?
Dr. Amy Moore 4:11
So I’m drinking Bones. Okay. So have you had Bones coffee?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 4:15
I have not had Bones.
Dr. Amy Moore 4:17
Um it’s out of Cape Coral, Florida.
You know, I saw this uh I saw this post from the Babylon Bee this week uh advertising this Bible with perforated pages. So you could just pull out the ones that you you don’t agree with.
Why Hard Conversations Feel Impossible
Dr. Renton Rathbun 4:35
That’s beautiful.
Dr. Amy Moore 4:36
Yeah.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 4:38
The perforated Bible.
Dr. Amy Moore 4:39
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don’t I don’t like that one. So I’ll just I mean, I think that uh if you’re gonna start pulling out pages, you know how thin your Bible would be, right? Like if you’re the type that’s just gonna start pulling out the pages.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 4:53
Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
Sandy Zamalis 4:55
I mean, we just have such a culture of an inability to have hard conversations right now that I think it probably just kind of falls in that line. Like, I don’t like that, so I don’t want to talk about that topic. Yeah. But having hard conversations is kind of a weird space we’re in. I mean, we have the internet and we’ve got all we’re having all these conversations, but it hasn’t made it any easier.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 5:17
Yeah. Well, and this is the thing. Um people get more clicks when they berate each other. Um and so you get these guys, you know, I did a whole show on these guys that are um that are doing these podcasts about how to be a how to be a manly man, which you know, I appreciate. That’s great, because we have a very, you know, childlike uh generation coming up. And so teaching them to be a better man, you know, grow a beard or whatever. Um, but then they’re also into this, into this, we need to hate those that come up against us. And I have video of a guy in his church saying that we need to be more like more like God who hates those that come against him. And I’m just like, I mean, you’re just you found a way for the Bible to say what it’s not saying. Um, the whole, the whole thing of Jesus telling, saying to the Jews, you have heard that it’s been said to love your neighbor but hate your enemy, but I’m telling you to love your enemy. That’s exactly what he was talking to the Republicans. That’s, I mean, you know, the Pharisees were the Republicans of the time, and they were the conservatives. And he was telling the conservatives, yes, you’re you’re supposed to you’re supposed to stay against what they’re saying, but you’re supposed to love the person. You’re supposed to love them. And loving them, of course, looks different than affirming. But the love part was a pretty shocking thing for Jesus to say. And so here we are, and someone’s denying the very thing Jesus commanded us to do, and it’s like, um, how do you get there? Well, you have to, you have to have a click first mentality, a let me shock you first mentality, and then I’ll steer the theology over to what I needed, you know, what I need. And it’s everybody’s doing it. Anyway. Yeah, I’m sorry, that was a lot.
Sandy Zamalis 7:25
Oh no, I like that. Um you hit your mic.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 7:27
You turned your mic off.
Dr. Amy Moore 7:28
You hit your mic, Amy. You do, yeah. Man, that was like a really good comment that you just missed.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 7:34
I’m sorry.
Dr. Amy Moore 7:36
What was the last thing you heard me say?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 7:40
Sorry. Like all men, I can’t read lips and I can never remember what anyone said.
Dr. Amy Moore 7:46
So you’re sleeping through the conversation, Renton, right?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 7:50
Yes. I have to remember not to drink while you’re saying things.
Dr. Amy Moore 7:57
The crazy thing is, the crazy thing is, like your topics are so deep and so important that they’re not funny. But we have to make fun of how not funny what’s happening in our world is right now.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 8:18
That’s right. That’s right. And I think, you know, funny is funnier when you are dealing with something difficult. If that makes sense. Sure. And and I think that and I think there is there’s uh there’s a release that your audience needs, especially when you’re talking about difficult things where they need a minute to laugh. I have found this to be true. I’ve done three funerals now in the year that I have been a pastor. And um all three, I had a mildly funny joke in there. You don’t wanna you don’t wanna guffaw during a funeral. But uh, you know, just something a little humorous about the person and and something everyone knows, and they just roared. Yeah. Not because it was really funny, but they just needed something. Sure. They needed something to to to feel so they didn’t have to feel sad the entire time. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore 9:23
You know, I just watched um The Madison on Paramount. Um really because it was about a fly fisherman and his family and my husband’s a fly fisherman, and uh our neighbor thought we would enjoy it.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 9:42
But anyway, I’ve never heard of it.
Dr. Amy Moore 9:46
But oh no, it’s I mean, it’s a it’s beautiful scenery, the Madison River in Montana. Oh, beautiful scenery, but the it’s an eight-episode season, and it’s so heavy from the first scene, right? Like the first scene he dies. I’ll tell you because it’s the first scene, right? The first scene he dies. And so then the matriarch of the family, you know, is just dealing with the grief and the fallout and all of the things. And there’s no comedic relief. There’s no space to breathe. The entire eight episodes are so heavy that I said to my neighbor, I’m never taking a TV recommendation from you ever again. That is not entertainment. That is oppression.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 10:33
Yes.
Dr. Amy Moore 10:34
It’s actually a beautiful, a beautifully acted show. I’m not I’m just saying emotionally, you do need space for it to breathe, right?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 10:43
Is that a is that a Tyler, what’s his face?
Dr. Amy Moore 10:47
A Taylor Sheridan, it is. Yeah.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 10:48
See, oh yeah. I love all his shows. Well, I love many of his shows, but they they are if they don’t have comedic relief, it is awful. I mean, he just shows the darkest darkness that we all know is there, but we don’t want to admit it. And he shows it to us. It’s so hard to deal with.
Dr. Amy Moore 11:08
Yeah. So I actually I actually was preaching a sermon a couple years ago when 1923 was out. And I was saying that, did you see that one?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 11:18
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore 11:19
So it was like calamity after calamity after calamity after calamity. And then I went, but if we look at Paul, calamity after calamity after calamity after calamity, right? Like it that’s life. Like that is like some of us have bigger calamities than others, but okay, what can we learn from this?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 11:42
Yeah. Well, and then you look at it. You look at Isaiah’s, what is it, 40 45, 7 or 7 45? Anyway, one of the two. And it just says, he’s uh it says God is speaking and he says, I am the one that makes all things. I am the one that brings calamity, and I am the one that brings good. And you’re just like uh then you realize calamity is is awful, but if we if there’s nothing that makes you grow better, it is calamity. And in a fallen world, that’s the way it is. There’s gonna be a time where our best growth will be at peace, but not yet. Yeah.
Deconstruction Versus Examining Your Faith
Dr. Amy Moore 12:28
All right. So you’ve been talking a little bit about deconstruction out there in the world. And um, I want to talk about what’s happening um with Christian colleges. And I want to talk about so one of the things that you are super passionate about is making sure that kids and teens know how to think critically. And so one could argue that that deconstruction process is a critical thinking process. How do you differentiate? Right. How do we differentiate between healthy critical thinking and deconstruction that actually completely says I’m walking away from the faith because I don’t believe any of this? And then this is like the third part of this question. I’m just giving you a map of where you want to go. Because you know, we get off on rabbit trails. Um I want I want to hear your thoughts about um how some Christian colleges are actually undermining their faith and they’re normalizing this deconstruction process and their marketing is crazy and they’re Christian but not Christian. And so I just kind of want to talk about like how do we prepare Christian families for this phenomenon? How do we uh help teens who are considering going to a Christian college discern um I mean what they should be looking for, what they should not be looking for, what the red flags are. Let’s just dig in. You got it all? Can you remember all of it? Were you paying attention?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 14:08
That is one juicy stake that I’m ready to go at because that is that’s my thing, man. I’d love to talk about all those things.
Dr. Amy Moore 14:15
Okay. Have at it.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 14:19
All right. Are we recording right now?
Dr. Amy Moore 14:21
We’ve been recording since the moment you I didn’t want to miss a minute.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 14:26
Well, I’m ready when you are.
Dr. Amy Moore 14:28
I’m waiting for you. Sandy’s like just, hello, could I participate in this conversation too? We’re ready, Ren, whenever you are. Do you need me to remind you what the question was?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 14:45
Okay. Uh yes. Go ahead. Yeah. Tell me what the question was again. Sorry.
Dr. Amy Moore 14:50
So I want to talk about this idea of deconstruction. And I I want to hear a your definition of what that is. Because I sometimes hear people say deconstruction is healthy. Deconstruction is a part of what we go through as, you know, teens and adolescents and college students, where we kind of break down what we believe and why we believe it. But you think it’s a little bit more insidious than that. So I I want to hear you talk about it.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 15:19
Okay. Well, this is important because I think there is a lot of, or there are a lot of people that are saying that deconstruction is uh is just, you know, it’s just thinking about my faith and reflecting on my faith and seeing if it really makes sense and all that sort of thing. And what I’ve found are people that say that are people that probably haven’t taken a logic test or have taken a logic uh class. Um part of my uh part of the world that I lived in uh when I taught for 25 years in the college world was teaching logic. And this is one of the main issues that I think a lot of people are missing about deconstruction. So let me first tell you what I think examining your faith is, and then we’ll talk about what deconstruction is. So examining your faith is doing the logical work of examining any topic. An examination is asking questions about one’s beliefs using a criteria from the source of those beliefs. Okay, if that does that make sense. So so I have a system of beliefs, and if I really want to understand those beliefs, I need to understand the source, where those beliefs came from, study the source and see what I think. That’s examining anything. So, you know, I got a little thing written down to help people. If I want to know how God, how can God love people when so many suffer? And if I can even put this way, how can he love his own people when his own people are suffering? That’s a question. So I want to examine my own faith. So I look up Isaiah 45, 7, and I and it says that God controls all things. He’s the one that creates the calamity, he creates uh he brings about good. So he’s in control. I look at 1 John 4 and it tells me what love is. Because I’m if he loves something, I want to know what that means. And 1 John 4 tells us that love is not a concept that God has to try and reach. Uh love, God is love, and so whatever his character is, is at the at the source of how we should understand love. Then I want to look at suffering. And I look at James 1 and it says that we should count it all joy when we suffer because our faith is growing our ability to be steadfast. And the steadfastness is so important to the Lord because that’s what makes us look like his son. And we even find in Romans 8.29 that that’s his goal for us, to look like his son, to be in, to be conformed to the image of his son. So if I’m going to do an examination of my faith based on that question, how can God love his own people when his own people are suffering? I would say something like people suffer because God loves them enough to make them like his own son. And that’s an examination that’s logical. I’m looking at the source where those beliefs come from to see if they’re consistent. That’s examination. Now, deconstruction is a different thing. Deconstructing is examining one’s belief using a criteria that is foreign to those beliefs. Um, now that’s a very illogical thing to do, but all you have to do is have an entire generation, maybe several generations, within a society where logic is no longer important, where you don’t require it in high school. Um, in college, you can take a logic course, but that’s an elective. Okay, so if you want to learn how to think, that’s something you can elect to do, you don’t have to. Um, and most people choose not to because it’s hard. And why take that class? And so, not too many people take the a course in logic. And so now you have an entire generation, entire society that does not regulate how it is I examine things. And so now I’m going to examine my faith based on a criteria that is foreign to my faith. Well, logically, that’s stupid. But if you don’t know that, if you haven’t studied how it is I come to examine something, I haven’t been taught how that works. No one has told me how this, how this should function as a logical system, then it seems normal. Why wouldn’t I? So now if I want to know how can God love his own people when his own people suffer, now I can I can use a foreign criteria to decide that. One foreign criteria might be my own personal experiences. It’s been my experience that if I’m going to love someone, I should accept them for who they are right now and not want them to change. And that’s been my experience. And when I look online at my social media, you know, people tend to agree with me. The algorithms that want my eyes to stay on that particular platform seem to keep bringing to my feed people that agree with me. How strange is that? And so I tend to think that my experiences are actually helpful to know the truth about the world. And so my experiences and everyone online keep telling me that to love someone is to affirm them. And I don’t want them to change, because that wouldn’t be love. And my experiences tell me that love is when I validate someone because who they’ve chosen to be is part of their identity, and I don’t want to change their identity. And so, really, when it comes down to that question, I might say something like this: if God loves people, he will not want them to suffer, but rather he will celebrate them for who they are right now. Um and what we find is that’s not the God of the Bible, that’s some other God. But how you got there, how you deconstructed everything was you took this system of beliefs and you grabbed a foreign criteria that has nothing to do with these beliefs and decide to judge them based on this weird criteria that you came up with out of nowhere, out of your own experiences that you think have become somehow universal for these beliefs. Is any of that logical? Well, of course not. It’s not logical, but it sure gave you the answers you wanted to get out of a system that limits what you want to do.
Dr. Amy Moore 21:42
Yeah, so what I’m hearing you say is you take worldly criteria to measure a biblical concept.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 21:51
Yes. And what and the problem is no one’s asking them, well, where do you get that idea? I mean, you wouldn’t believe how many arguments I won. In when I’m teaching in these secular colleges and universities, and I’m teaching them logic, I’m teaching intro to philosophy, intro to ethics. And they come at me with some woke idea or some idea that you know they believe is the governing idea of their life. And all I have to say is, well, who says? Who says that we should be fair? Who says that we should, everyone’s outcome should be equal? Um, who says? And they say, Well, it’s just how I feel. And I’m like, okay. Um, you know that how you feel doesn’t now become the law for everyone else, because that wouldn’t be fair, right? Like, oh no, I don’t want to do that. And I say, so who says? I mean, this is pretty important. You’re you’re betting your whole life on it. So, so who says that fairness is important? Who says people should be fair? They have no idea. Because what they don’t want to say is, I’ve been brainwashed by social media and I never asked the question. And and so, you know, if we don’t have a source, if source, if finding the source of a belief system has become no longer valuable, um, then it any system that you find, you can take any other source and use it. It would be like, you know, how do you know if a if a truck is a is a good performing truck? You know, like a F-150 versus whatever Chevy does. And so, sorry, or or a tundra, you know, is a tundra a good a good truck? It’s pretty. Uh, I don’t know if it’s a good truck. What would be the criteria for a good truck? And so you can go down the line through the horsepower and whatever masculine people say about trucks, and you you put it all down. You got a list. Now you take that list and you say, okay, let’s use this list to decide if a woman is pretty. And you’re like, well, that’s crazy. Um, that list has nothing to do with whether a woman would be pretty or be a good person or any of that. You’re talking about a truck. Now that’s logical, but we do that all the time when we’re dealing with belief systems about the Bible, and we take some foreign entity to decide whether or not it’s true or false doesn’t make any sense. It only makes logical sense if you value the idea of saying, here’s the belief system, here’s its source. We value the, you know, tracing it back to its source and deciding if the source makes sense or not. And because we’ve lost that, because no one cares, not no one, but many Americans are uneducated when it comes to logic. When we stop valuing that, anything goes.
Dr. Amy Moore 24:45
Yeah, it made me think of you know, using the results of a European history test to measure how well your professor taught you American history.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 24:55
Yeah, that’s right.
Dr. Amy Moore 24:56
To be able to say this was a terrible professor.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 24:58
Yes. Well, and look how we look how we cancel people based on the new standard of today. And we look back and we go, oh, Charleston Heston, uh, Charleston Heston, he was, he seemed to be a bad guy because he’s not meeting the criteria that we have today of how you should speak or talk about women or even talk about other races, and he talked this way, and so now we need to cancel him. Well, that’s insane. I mean, you’re you’re taking you’re taking you’re of you’re abandoning the source, which in that case would be the context of the time, and immediately putting him into this context, which makes no logical sense, but we we do it all the time. We cancel people all the time. We’re tearing down statues because the people that are represented in that statue don’t meet the standard of today because we have ripped them out of the context that they lived in. It’s insane. But we accept it because no one cares about whether something’s logical or not.
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How Professors Quietly Reframe Faith
Sandy Zamalis 27:22
Moms.
Dr. Amy Moore 27:22
So let’s situate this phenomenon in the college setting now. What are you seeing happening?
Dr. Renton Rathbun 27:31
So I think a lot of people believe. Um I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that Christian movie, uh God is not dead.
Dr. Amy Moore 27:39
Yes.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 27:40
Very popular. Um, it’s kind of like one of those fantasy movies of you know, how you think that something’s gonna go if you’ve never been there. Uh so it’s like the, you know, this Christian kid goes to a secular school and he walks into the room and you got this uh, you know, long-haired guy. Of course, he has to be long-haired because you know that’s that’s how they are. And so uh and so, oh yeah. Always has long hair. And so he’s up there, you know, and he’s like, who in here is a Christian? And the kid’s like, I’m a Christian, like I’m gonna get you and your little dog too. And he’s like, no. And there’s a yellow brick road. You’ve seen the movie. And so I might be mixing them up, but but my point is, you know, at the end of the movie, the kid’s like, you know, he proves his point that Christianity’s true because something about free will that he couldn’t possibly understand if he ever took a philosophy course. Anyway, what I’m getting at is a lot of people think that’s what that’s what it’s it’s gonna look like. So we got to prepare our kids. So let’s get them, you know, let’s get them in front of Wes Huff and watch him enough videos of Wes Huff so he knows how to how to challenge that professor. And and so, you know, and nothing against Wes Huff. He’s fine. And and, you know, perhaps his shirts could be a little looser, whatever. My point is, my point is that you have these, we’re preparing these kids as if that’s what it’s gonna look like when they walk in the room. And none, I uh I’ve only seen one guy that acted that way in all the years that I worked in the public realm. And he was having a rough time. I mean, he was just upset over a divorce. And, you know, he just wanted to fight the world. But for the most part, my colleagues welcomed Christian kids, wanted Christian kids, because they saw them as kids that were victimized by a system that stopped them from being the identity they could be. And whatever that identity is, their evangelistic work. And by evangel, I mean they thought they had the good news. The good news, kids, is that you don’t need that system. And you don’t need that system to tell you what to do. You can be who you want to be. And that was the good news for those kids. And so, how are you gonna give kids? How are you gonna evangelize kids? It’s not gonna be who in here is a Christian. I’m gonna get you. It’s it’s this. It looks like this. It says, Welcome to my class, kids. I’m really glad you’re here. Uh, in this class, we don’t want to have a place where everyone’s fighting. I know a lot of people are fighting over over religion and politics right now. That’s that’s not what we want in here. Um uh, for instance, who in here might have a faith? And so the kids will raise their hand and you know what they’ll say? They’ll say, that’s awesome. That is awesome, kids. Uh, because, you know, in a world like this, you don’t, you know, to have a faith is very important and you wanna, you know, you want to stand for something, and I respect that, and that’s awesome. But you might know that, you know, in a lot of faiths, people fight over stuff, you know, like in Christianity, you have a Bible and you have all these different denominations, and people think, you know, some people go all the way under the water, some people just sprinkle, you know, what do we do? And you know, you have all these different denominations after denominations, but in this course, we’re just going to talk about, you know, literary criticism. We just want to, we just want to be able to understand the story. Or in this class, you know, this is physics, we just we’re just gonna do math. We’re just gonna do math, kids. We’re not no threats over how we’re gonna fight over things. We just have the standard, we’re gonna use it, we’re and it’s gonna be just like that. And then what they use is they the next step is to help them see that the standard we’re gonna use in the class is not gonna cause any fights. It’s just the standard that that will be helpful for us. It’s a neutral standard. And, you know, we’re not, you can be a Christian unbeliever and still use this neutral thing that I got. Then during the course, what they’ll do is they’ll show the kid this really complex idea about the subject that they’re learning. If they’re in a course like physics, they might show them, you know, how it is that um, you know, general relativity and and um, you know, quantum field theory were at war with each other for so long until we figured out the math. And let me show you how it works. And now they’re talking about quantum field theory and general relativity, it makes you feel very smart. And they handed them something that was very easy for them to understand without destroying the complexity of the idea, and now they feel smart. And I’ll tell you, if you can get a kid to feel smart, to feel like he has been able to gain a piece of knowledge that other people don’t quite get, it changes how you feel about yourself. And I know about this because I mean I grew up with dyslexia. And so, you know, in the 80s, no one called it that. They just said Renton’s slow. He’s just a little dumb. And so I hated, I hated call, I hated the idea of college, I hated the idea of school, I hated all that stuff until a professor believed in me. And it changed everything about how I thought about myself. So, you know, never underestimate what can be done in the classroom when someone believes in you as a professor believing in the heart of a kid, and that makes the kid feel empowered. And you gave them something that can be used for good. But what ends up happening is the professor will use that thing that he handed them, that complex idea, and then show them, see this complex idea that I gave you that made you feel smart? Yeah, you can’t believe in this and the Bible at the same time. But it’s cool if you want to believe in the Bible. I mean, maybe the Bible just has a bunch of myth, and myth helps us understand your God and whatever that means, and that’s cool, but you can’t like believe it literally and like believe it’s really historical and all that. And that’s all they need. And that little gift becomes the poison that sits in their heart. It’s too complex to talk to mom and dad about. They don’t understand that. Their youth pastor is a really cool guy with a great hairstyle and he knows how to play the guitar, but he doesn’t understand quantum field theory, so you’re not going to talk to him about it. And so it just sits in you that this pit of doubt that you’re not sure, and you don’t talk to anybody about it, and you go on with your semester worried about whether this whole Christianity thing is true. And it was just an intro to physics course. What’s the big deal? And so that’s how they reach him. Um, you get enough classes like that, you get enough pressure from outside groups in the in the college like that, where you don’t really fit in unless you’re buying into the ethics of the of the movement. Got to be a part of the movement. You know, you don’t want to be a boomer. No one wants to be a boomer. So you got to be a part of the movement. If you’re gonna be part of the movement, you gotta accept some of this, you know, some of the ethics of it. And the ethics are always very inclusive, inclusive, inclusive. Unless you’re a Christian, we don’t include that. But all the all the other stuff, you know, all the way down to Islam that would, you know, treat women terribly, that’s still acceptable. It’s just a Christian. We don’t like that. And so, you know, you start, and then they start thinking, well, I’m open-minded. I’m not saying I agree with that, I’m just more open-minded than mom and dad. And all of that creeps into their little hearts and it creates this desire to take a different, a different kind of standard and compare it to my Bible. And and it seems like it makes sense because you think your teacher has accepted you, your teacher has defended you, your teacher has separated you from your faith by saying there’s something neutral out there, right? So your faith is great, you can have that on the weekends, it’s great. But in this classroom, we have this neutral thing, which of course is a lie. There’s not no such thing as something neutral. It is designed, and this design thing is gonna come after you and your faith. And so they don’t, they don’t necessarily start with your religion as false and stupid. They usually start with, I accept you. This is this is the neutral standard we’re gonna use in the class, and you can use it on anything, and it ends up being used against their Bible, and their Bible, not surprisingly, is found to fall short because it’s going to fall short every time you take a foreign um a foreign criteria against something that it’s not meant to measure, right like God’s word. Okay.
Intentional Strategy Or Organic Worldview
Dr. Amy Moore 36:30
So that seemed very the way you were describing it, it seemed very methodical and intentional. Is it methodical and intentional, or has it just evolved in this natural way? Like I find it really hard to believe that every physics professor, every calculus professor, every hard science professor in every secular school and half of the Christian schools out there are methodically saying, first I’m gonna do this, then I’m gonna do this, and then this will happen. Talk to me about that.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 37:11
Well, there’s the reason why it’s it seems strange is because to answer your question, is it methodical, intentional, or is it some organic thing that’s happening? I would say yes to both. Um it’s organic in that you have a worldview. And every teacher became a teacher, whether they are conscious of this or not, because they believed they have stumbled onto the truth and they want other people to believe. And so your first job as a teacher is to lead people to the truth. That’s what makes it hard to be a Christian teacher in a secular school, because your job is to lead kids to the truth, and that’s going to get you in trouble. I can’t tell you how many hours I spent in the chair’s office uh because of complaints. Um, but it’s because I felt very strongly about that. But a worldview will push you to be a better relator. How do I relate to my students so that they believe my worldview? Because in the end, even if your worldview is we shouldn’t have a worldview and everything should be neutral, and we should just give them, you know, be information sharers, is a worldview. And so every worldview is going to force you to want to communicate that worldview. And so, what’s the best way to communicate it? Well, if you take a class on the best way to communicate anything, it’s going to tell you first, you the people need to see you’re not, you’re not their enemy. Well, how do I do that? Well, I I pick the thing that everyone thinks I’m going to use against them and show them I’m not going to use that against you. And so whether they’re doing it on purpose or it’s just, you know, teaching skills, they’re learning, I’m going to take the thing everyone’s worried about and say, okay, see this thing, I’m not going to use it against you. I’m here for you. Um, and so I tell them, you know, who in here is a Christian? Oh, that’s awesome, right? But then I also want to make sure that the things I don’t agree with aren’t going to interfere with my worldview teaching in the classroom. So what do I do? I say, okay, everybody, um, it’s great you have your beliefs, but you know, obviously I can’t cater to every single one of your beliefs. We have to have something we can all agree on. And my job is now to convince you that this thing that we all agree on, that we can all use, is neutral. Now that is the biggest lie, of course. There’s there’s no such thing as a designed, um, a design criteria that is a neutral criteria, because criteria is about judgment making. You are you are making judgments. First, you have to value the criteria. And to value the criteria, you have to have a lot of judgments that you make about why this criteria is even valuable enough to use, which means you have to have a full worldview. You have to have beliefs and and and values, and you have to have um assumptions that are all going into saying this is a good criteria. Now, does an 18-year-old think that way? No, an 18-year-old says, I’m not familiar with that criteria. And you’re like, see that feeling of unfamiliarity? That’s what neutral is. And so, this is neutral, kids. Don’t be afraid of this thing. But really, what they’re telling you not to be afraid of is this poisonous dart that they have created, that if they keep their shield of faith down, you can get that dart through to them. Now, they’re not thinking that way. They’re thinking, I just want them to know the truth. This is what I know is the truth, and I’m going to use this to get them to the truth. But that’s not how Satan thinks. Satan thinks in terms of Ephesians 6 that says, if you pick up the shield of faith in every occasion, is what Ephesians 6 says. Then when those darts come, they will be extinguished. But what is what is Paul logically saying? Well, if you don’t pick up the field, the shield of faith, those darts are coming right for your chest. And so, you know, these part of the organic idea of how do I get kids to listen to my lecture is getting their guard down. Well, that’s understandable and I get that. But in a spiritual sense, what they’re really doing is saying, keep your shield of faith down. I have something I want to send to you. And that is, you know, is it malicious? I don’t think they intend it to be malicious. I think they’re actually, they think they’re helping. Um, is Satan celebrating every time one of those darts gets to the kid’s chest? Absolutely. And so I’m not taking the responsibility away from the professor, but I am saying they’re not doing this rubbing their hands together going, I’m gonna get them. They’re thinking I’m uh I’m helping these kids. And that’s what makes it so, so dark,
Teaching Kids To Think And Love
Dr. Renton Rathbun 42:22
I think.
Sandy Zamalis 42:22
I keep thinking of the screw tape letters by C.S. Lewis as you’re talking. Like that’s like the main, it’s I love that story because it pretty much just outlines everything that you’ve talked about, about you know, kind of how we think through some of these things in terms of a spiritual battle versus just a, you know, a diabolical human plot. Right. Like and when we I I think to your point, Renton, when we go through life and you know, the messaging is you are perfect as you are, versus, you know, your life’s journey has a has something about it that you need to grow into. Um there are different conversations to be had. And so having these critical thinking kinds of conversations just becomes so much more important. And I love that you were kind of pointing that out. And I guess my question to you is how do we as parents then prepare our children for this? Because um, because it is a spiritual battle. It’s it’s you know, it may or may not be a diabolical plot, but they’ve got to be prepared and um be able to stand in on their own two feet and kind of register that with grace and love the way we would, you know, want them to do that battle, not necessarily um, you know, out in the open, but maybe if that’s what they’re called.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 43:48
So yeah. Well, I think a lot of it comes down to exactly what the Bible tells us um, how we should um approach these things. So Ephesians. Chapter 5 tells us that part of our work as especially as parents are to figure out what it what world views out there are against the Lord and then expose them. And it’s all about the light and exposing them. What it doesn’t say is make sure the person that is promoting these things is embarrassed, looks like a fool, so you can really punish them. Um and so teaching our kids how to think is important in that they learn in a way the Bloom’s taxonomy of I’m not just I’m not just um recalling something and repeating it, but I know how to I know how to analyze something. I know how to take someone else’s view and put it into its component parts so it’s easier for me to understand in its parts. And then I want to make sure I’m evaluating it. That’s the next step up in Bloom’s taxonomy of evaluation. Okay, so so these parts that I just you know took this idea and put it in its component parts, where do they come from? What standard are they using? Well, they seem to be using this standard. Does it even match that standard? What standard do I use to approach the same thing that they’re using? And do does my source make sense in this in this topic in this realm? And so they’re starting to see how to deal with these with these different ideas using just merely two parts, you know, two or three parts of Bloom’s taxonomy. Can I can I recall what they even believe? Am I able to put it in their component parts? And can I, you know, help hold it up to their own standard to see if it if it even makes sense to them? Because once I get there, I can look at my own view, pull it into component parts, look at what I compare it to from my source, and then do the thing that is the highest form of critical thinking, which is can I evaluate, can I understand or justify, if I can put that word, can I justify my own position? Can I justify my own source of truth? How do I justify God’s word? Um, and that is, and that is at the heart of thinking because what you’re saying is, do I need something from here on this earth to decide whether God’s word is right or wrong? Or is it uh am I really believing in what God’s word says that this is an act of the Holy Spirit upon me that causes my belief to happen? Because those are two very different things that are going on, two very different standards going on. And when they can think in those kind of terms, they’re really grabbing something. But the second thing they need to do is to understand that these ideas, even if I disagree with them, let me rephrase this, not even just disagree, but I know they’re wrong. And I know what they believe is hurting others. How do I respond to the person? And I think that’s what we’re we’re losing in our society. We have a lot of guys, a lot of talking heads right now that have all these great arguments going on for you know the conservative view of something or the biblical view of something, but they go after people uh almost in a ruthless way. And that’s and it gets clicks because you know they’re fighting and all that sort of thing. But the real question is, do they love people? Um as a pastor, I can tell you there’s a lot of people out there that are pastors that are great lecturers that every Sunday produce a fantastic lecture. Now the question is, do they love people? Um, because I can tell you which one God cares about more as a pastor. Uh, God wants you to love his people more than you can speak well. And I know this for a fact because under inspiration, Paul is writing in 1 Corinthians chapter 2, I stink at speaking, I am afraid, I don’t have enough information from what the philosophers are saying to sound impressive. In fact, I think the Lord made me purposefully unimpressive. And why? Because he says, so that you will see that this is the Spirit’s work, it’s not me. And so we need to teach our kids that although argumentation is important and it’s important to defend your faith, if you don’t love people, um, you are going to find yourself um like a clinging, uh like a clinging symbol or a or a big, you know, just a big noise. You’re just gonna be a big noise, and it all is gonna mean nothing if you don’t have love for God’s people. And and if we can get those two things across, um, it’s good to be a good, you know, to know what you believe, why you believe it. But when you’re when you are defending it, you are loving people. I mean, teaching our kids how to love people. I just I think it’s a lost art. I don’t even know if we think about it, but they grow up being people that don’t like people. And we think it’s not a big deal all the way until they get married and they realize they’re married to a people. And uh and then they’re not so nice to that person either because they’d never liked people. Um we gotta we gotta have kids that are smart, think well, and love people.
Sandy Zamalis 49:33
That was a great way to put that. I agree. Because it’s so easy. It’s so easy to be frustrated. And, you know, to your point, you know, um, love God’s people is that’s all people, not just other Christians or other or people who think like you.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 49:51
Well, and you know that you you look at how vicious everything has become. I mean, everything is at a 10 all the time. Um, you know the, you know, there’s there’s race baiting going on. There is rage, you know, podcasts specifically designed to make people filled with rage because you get a lot of views. Um, you know, when you’re just trying to help people, people don’t want to be helped. They want to be angry. And so um you know that you could probably get a lot more clicks if you made people angry about, you know, this new thing and you know, these people doing all this awful stuff. I mean, I’m about to do a show, I’m about to record a show with a with a very high-ranking uh veteran uh who is in the military, and um, and we’re gonna discuss um, you know, what is it like 25 years later, after 9-11, um, in New York City, where now we have um a Muslim who is you know a Shiite Muslim of all kinds, um, running the city. What does that mean to you? Um, it is easy to make Zoran Mandani a a uh target of anger. Um it’s very easy. I mean, um he you know, he represents a Marxist view, which is a very ungrateful view. It’s a very immature view, it’s a view that says that um, you know, that people are owed things when when from a Christian point of view we say you need to work for things. And, you know, you could just you could destroy Zoran. But the question is, how do you talk about these things without hating people? And that’s the hardest thing, you know, on my show, where we’re we’re going after worldviews that are being espoused by humans, and it’s hard to distinguish when I am angry at this worldview ripping our families apart, but trying to demonstrate love to the person that is promoting it? Um, how do you do that? Um well, I know it’s not just um affirming the person, and I know it’s not just saying, well, we disagree, um, but it has to be something better than that. And do our kids know what that looks like? Do they know what that means? How do you how do you show compassion for someone who has been blinded? Their ears have become deaf to the truth of God, and you are worried about them. Um, that looks a lot different than I want them destroyed.
Sandy Zamalis 52:28
It’s super interesting. Um, I think some of this comes with age. So the fact I know your heart is for our college age kids, um, but I’m thinking of um the founder of Learning Rx um actually spoke to us last week at our convention. And one of the things it it would, I mean, this was on his heart. He’s had, you know, a couple near-death experiences in the last couple of years, and he just wanted to share the love of God with the people he loved in the room. And, you know, to come at it from that perspective was just, you know, it was heartwarming to hear that. Um, and then I, you know, gosh, I I came to the Lord because because of that same kind of thing. My husband, you know, we’re having a conversation about, you know, he was unequally yoked at the time, right? And and he said, um, it’s important to me because we’re I want us to be together forever and God loves you. Um, and so if you don’t come at it with love, you’re not gonna be able to reach anyone.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 53:31
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s and you know, that’s so interesting because it’s it’s almost the last thing on our mind. It’s almost the afterthought, you know. I think we we look at 1 Peter 3.15 where it says, you know, have an answer for everyone that comes to you, and you know, oh, and by the way, you know, be nice about it, okay? And then we move on. But um, but you know, 1 Peter uh 3.15 has a whole litany of stuff that’s going on. 15, you know, there’s there’s like at least 14 verses before that. Sorry. I just want you to know I’m really good at math.
Dr. Amy Moore 54:12
Um you needed four master’s degrees and a PhD to do that.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 54:17
Finally, I’ve reached it.
Dr. Amy Moore 54:19
Right? It was worth all the money and effort. We’re so impressed.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 54:26
Thank you. I did that on purpose so people wouldn’t see. Um but those 14 verses are pretty interesting because it gives you this whole rounded view and it starts off with love. I mean, it starts off with men, how are you supposed to love your wives and how are we supposed to love each other in the church? And so that’s not an afterthought. That is that is at the heart of why you would give an answer to the hope that is within you, because you’re demonstrating this love to them. You’re not saying, you know, you need to know. I got this great, awesome argument that I found on YouTube, and you’re gonna hear it, and I’m gonna make you look like an idiot, you know? It’s like because I love you so much, you need to hear this. And when you love someone enough to tell them what they need to hear, they know the love is in your voice, the love is in your eyes. You don’t have to put on uh this, you know, weird, fake uh humility because we live at a time, and you know, we can criticize Gen Z all we want for all the problems that they have and all that sort of thing. But the one thing I think is really important that we need to capitalize on with Gen Z is they long for authenticity. They long for it because everything’s fake in their world. They know social media is fake. We’re, you know, all of us Gen Xers are telling them, you know, social media is fake. No, it’s real. They’re like, I know that. They’re the ones using the filters. They get it. It’s fake. And they and they they know that almost everything you see now in a video, you have to decide if it’s AI or not, or if it’s AI assisted or not. And so they live in a world where everything they see is questionable. What they want to hear is something real. It’s why stand-up comedy hasn’t died yet. The fact that it a lot of stand-up comedy is not woke and they use words that make everyone, you know, grab their pearls, um, is because people are longing for someone just to say something real. And they don’t care if it’s racist, they don’t care if it’s something that sounds awful. It’s real, so they take it. So now imagine we can tell them something that’s real from our heart because we love them, that’s that actually matters. Um, I think, I think there’s a whole generation longing for that. And of course, you know, of course, there’s gonna be discouraging moments, of course, there’s gonna be times where they’re not gonna want to hear it. But they need to see that authentic love coming out of us when we tell them what they need to hear. And and when they see that, I think, I think it’s gonna change things.
Choosing College Without Losing Your Anchor
Dr. Amy Moore 57:05
So I want to bring this back full circle um to this whole idea. Um, because you you talk like I talk, right? Like we’re halfway to Topeka by now. Um Stream of consciousness. I’m like really excited about this topic. Um But for parents, um, well, first of all, I think humans have this tendency to collect like-minded people, right? Like we surround ourselves with people who think like us, we choose where we go to church because that aligns with our, you know, our worldview. We probably uh choose our profession based on um alignment with our worldview, right? So we collect like-minded friends. Um is your advice um to parents to help their teens choose a path, a college path that aligns with their Christian worldview, and then just use some discernment once they’re there because that’s easier, right? You’re hopefully with like-minded people, or is your advice to say you don’t have to choose a Christian college because it might not be Christian anyway? Um what is your advice, right? Because the reality is a a Christian college, even in a perfect world, might not have the degree that this teenager needs for their chosen career path, for example. Um, or Christian colleges can be cost prohibitive for many families. So let’s say that that is not necessarily academically the and financially the option that would work. I don’t know. What is your advice here? Bring this, kind of bring this all in.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 59:04
Yeah, I would I would say this. Um we homeschool because, you know, for many reasons. One of which is we believe that the education of our children um needs guidance. Um and I would be really careful about deciding that college is going to be the place where you’re gonna say, my hands are now off. It’s up to you, you know, Johnny. You figure out where you want to go. And we’ll just pray the Lord blesses it. You know, um, education is gonna, you need to guide them all the way to, you know, what what it is they’re supposed to do, which means before you even decide if college is a thing that they should do, you should say, what are your gifts? How can you use that for the Lord? Um, don’t buy into the stupidity of this world that thinks you have to have a four-year degree. If you think that that God has blessed you and your hands and you need to, you wanna, you wanna do stuff to cars, or you want to be a plumber, or you wanna be something that’s that’s blue collar, please don’t think that that’s a step down. Um, that is glory to God. You are able to do something with your hands that AI cannot do. You are gonna be a unicorn. That’s right. Go with it. This is what the Lord wants. If there is something in, but if there’s something they want to do that does require a four-year degree, then this is how you should be thinking. Now that my child is approaching that, you know, that age of 18, are they strong enough to plug themselves into a church at a, you know, if they go to a secular college, are they strong enough to plug themselves into a church that will be their home? And college will be a place they visit. Um, that has got if if they’re uh and that’s what we need. We need children that are mature enough to say, if I go away to college, uh, you know, 100 miles away from mom and dad, do I need I need to find a church that’s my home so that when I visit college, you know, to do all my work, it’s a visitation. It is not, that’s not my home. That’s not where I’m looking to be accepted. Um, because right now, Christian colleges and secular colleges are both desperate for kids. They will do anything to suck your kid in and spend those checks. And so what they’re saying now is come here. This is where you belong. This is where you belong. This is where you belong. You don’t belong at a college. It is a four-year uh bridge to something real. College is not real. Um, it you’re it’s a youth group that gives you a degree and and and you need that. And so get it if you need it. Um, but don’t look at it as a place you belong. You do not belong at a college. You belong at your church, you belong in your family, those are places you belong. You do not belong at a school. And so help them understand those concepts. If you have a kid that’s mature enough to figure out, yeah, I don’t belong at this place, I’m using it to get what I need. I belong at my church. If you got a kid like that, then you know, there’s nothing wrong with sending them to a secular school because they have that maturity. You have a kid that’s just not very mature. Um, Christian schools, Christian universities are very helpful. But do not believe that a Christian university is your answer to help your kid be a better Christian. Um, I have I have talked to many parents who have sent them their kids to very, very, very uh conservative univers Christian universities, and um, they went there straight, came back gay. So don’t, you know, I they can be helpful, but they are not the answer. The answer is is, you know, when you send them to a Christian school, it could be helpful in that they have a they have a lot better chance of meeting a Christian young person there to marry. And if your kid is going to a college just to find someone to marry, awesome. Uh, because college is good for that. Um, most people find their mate there, and you’re going to stay married a lot longer than you’re going to find and you know, you’re going to be in your occupation. So, whatever it is, wherever you send them, if they see church as my home, I visit the school and have that mentality, even no matter how many friendships or how they get involved in the school, that’s going to be hugely important because you’re probably going to send your kid, even if it’s a very conservative university, they may not be your denomination or what you feel comfortable with in their Bible classes, might have a different view on things. You want them to see the church that you have worked with them. Maybe you visited, when you visit a college, don’t just visit the college, visit the churches in town. Figure out what’d be a good spot for your kid to be and be a be um influential in your kid’s decision. Um, you know, you can’t you they’re at the age where you can’t always just say, This is where you will go and you will obey. Um, but you can be influential and say, This is a good one. I suggest going here. Please listen to our wisdom. Um, or whatever it is. Um, but that’s how we need to start thinking about college. It is not a place that reforms your kid. It is not a place that that is your savior. Um, it is a place that might be useful in many ways. Know the maturity of your kid to know where you should send them.
Dr. Amy Moore 1:04:36
I love that advice. That was almost genius.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:04:42
Very close.
Show Plug Final Takeaways And Goodbye
Dr. Amy Moore 1:04:45
Um, so Renton, we have uh we introduced you before you arrived. And so we uh told our listeners and watchers about your show, but why don’t you uh give it a good plug? Because we love it.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:04:58
Oh, cool. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Uh the Renton Rathman Show is designed for parents. It’s designed to help them see all the different worldviews that are coming at their family and how to respond to them biblically, not as a Republican, not as a not as a conservative, but as what does the Bible say and how do we address this? And um, so it’s not always popular, and we get in trouble a lot, and so that’s a good reason to watch. Um and really, um, if you want to find, if you want to find us, uh, we are at rentonrathbun.com. Uh you can also find us anywhere on your favorite platform. You just put in Renton Rathbun show and it will pop up. And uh we have a lot of great stuff coming up from how we were we um next week, or I don’t know when this is gonna air, but uh we have on there um the CEO of Movie Guide on how do we deal with movies. Um that one’s up there. We got, I know we review movies like Supergirl, so that’s an interesting one. Uh we have we we even have stuff where I just talk to the audience about something that’s happening in the news right now that we need to deal with as Christians. So uh check it out.
Dr. Amy Moore 1:06:11
There’s something for everybody and Black Rifle Coffee if you’re listening.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:06:17
Yeah, it’s Black Rifle Coffee. You may not be watching my show, but you might be watching this one. So please sponsor the Rhett and Ratman show.
Dr. Amy Moore 1:06:28
Well, listeners, I listen to very few podcasts. Um, I I just am super picky about uh who I allow to speak into my life, Bent Ritten is one of them. So uh highly recommend. Yep, for sure. All right, we better wrap this show up. So, listeners, we love it uh that you spend an hour with us every week. Um, we hope that you feel a little bit smarter after spending this time with us. Dr. Rinton Rathbun, thank you so much for blessing our listeners with another wonderful show. Great advice. Um, we’ll hope you come back again and uh do it some more.
Dr. Renton Rathbun 1:07:10
I’d love to. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Amy Moore 1:07:13
All right. Uh, listeners, if you want more from us, you can find us on social media at the Braindy Moms. You can visit our website at theBraandymoms.com. Don’t forget you can sign up for our free monthly newsletter full of lots of cool tips about all the things that we talk about. You can find Sandy on TikTok at The Brain Trainer Lady. That is all the smart stuff we have for you this week. Catch you next time.